Earliest possible comic books?

Most here probably know the first modern comic books were printed in 1933, though there were collected reprints (in hardback) as far back as 1897. The modern format was similar to the dime novel. Comic strips go back as far as 1842 (sez WP).

So, could comic books, in their modern size & format, have appeared earlier? Could they have accompanied, or even supplanted, the dime novel (or Brit penny dreadful)? What advances were needed to produce the modern format, & could they have happened sooner?
 
modern comic books, like anything modern, were produced like that because of culture. Without the culture you can't see modern comic books before the 30's.

Its just a a book with funny pictures and short stories. The styles are just way different over the centuries. you can also call them cartoons or strips

Comic book have existed since BC if you look at the concept as primitive as possible, cave drawings are basically comic books.:D

Seriously though, Mangas are as old as the 17th century and in Europe comics were around in the 18th century. So the idea is very old indeed. Just the style and scenario's on them are highly influenced by culture, history, demand etc.
 
lionhead said:
modern comic books, like anything modern, were produced like that because of culture. Without the culture you can't see modern comic books before the 30's.

Its just a a book with funny pictures and short stories. The styles are just way different over the centuries. you can also call them cartoons or strips

Comic book have existed since BC if you look at the concept as primitive as possible, cave drawings are basically comic books.:D

Seriously though, Mangas are as old as the 17th century and in Europe comics were around in the 18th century. So the idea is very old indeed. Just the style and scenario's on them are highly influenced by culture, history, demand etc.
That's the thing. Cartooning has been around a long time. (IDK about manga, so...) Was it possible to get the brainstorm of collecting strips or cartoons in a dime novel-size booklet any sooner? I can't see that's uniquely a '30s idea... Dime novels were illustrated; how hard could it be for a publisher wanting to keep his presses running (a major reason the first comic book was printed in the '30s) to say, "Hmm...what if we reprint these strips on dime novel paper, which we're using anyhow...?"
 
Were comic books originally in color? Because I can see color being much more expensive earlier and thus not available to the masses as it became then. Of course, OTOH, in the '30s you had the Depression when many people couldn't afford anything, so perhaps you cuold.

I think part of the idea centers around the need for a cartoonist who is able to develop the concept, too. Thomas Nast is the first name that pops into my mind in the 19th century; a very well known political cartoonist, had he been approached about the idea for political reasons he might have been able to pull it off. The question is, could he have created enough short stories and characters to have it be worthwhile? Because i can definitely see the possibility, if it could be produced in enough quantity, of selling them to immigrants as a way to draw people away from Boss Tweed; maybe he creates characters who exemplify the freedom which America provides and has a syndicate based on Tammany Hall which his character constantly fights?
 

Sior

Banned
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy's_Own_Paper

The Boy's Own Paper was a British story paper aimed at young and teenage boys, published from 1879 to 1967.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ally_Sloper's_Half_Holiday

Ally Sloper's Half Holiday was a British comic, first published on 3 May 1884. It has a legitimate claim to being the first comic magazine named after and featuring a regular character. Star Ally Sloper, a blustery, lazy schemer often found "sloping" through alleys to avoid his landlord and other creditors, had debuted in 1867 in the humour magazine Judy — created by writer and fledgling artist Charles Henry Ross and inked and later fully illustrated by his French wife Emilie de Tessier under the pseudonym "Marie Duval" 1 (or "Marie DuVal"; sources differ).

AllySloper%27sHalfHoliday.jpg
 
DTF955Baseballfan said:
Were comic books originally in color? Because I can see color being much more expensive earlier and thus not available to the masses as it became then.
I doubt it, not at the very first, anyhow, since they were reprint collections. At this time in OTL strips, the use of color was pretty unusual, too, AFAIK; the "Yellow Kid" was a rarity.

I think you'd fairly rapidly see a move to 4-color, tho; B&Ws just don't sell as well.
DTF955Baseballfan said:
I think part of the idea centers around the need for a cartoonist who is able to develop the concept, too. Thomas Nast is the first name that pops into my mind in the 19th century; a very well known political cartoonist, had he been approached about the idea for political reasons he might have been able to pull it off.
Here's the thing. I'm not seeing an artist having the "pull", where a publisher on the verge of bankruptcy could decide to do reprints, essentially as OTL; it only needs the name of a publisher who did something like it in the 1800s OTL.
DTF955Baseballfan said:
The question is, could he have created enough short stories and characters to have it be worthwhile? Because i can definitely see the possibility, if it could be produced in enough quantity, of selling them to immigrants as a way to draw people away from Boss Tweed; maybe he creates characters who exemplify the freedom which America provides and has a syndicate based on Tammany Hall which his character constantly fights?
I can see cartoonists getting drawn in, but I'm also thinking you get partnerships with dime novel writers, or a switch in focus of the dime novel writer/illustrator teams of OTL; again, following the OTL model, more/less. I don't see it needing a single cartoonist (writer-artist) to kickstart anything, tho perhaps the first book or two would, like The Spirit or The Phantom or Dick Tracy, be a one-man job, until it occurs to somebody writers & artists could (should?) specialize.
Sior said:
The Boy's Own Paper was a British story paper aimed at young and teenage boys, published from 1879 to 1967.
In the right area, but AIUI, it was a tabloid, not dime novel/penny dreadful-sized.
Sior said:
Ally Sloper's Half Holiday was a British comic, first published on 3 May 1884. It has a legitimate claim to being the first comic magazine named after and featuring a regular character...created by writer and fledgling artist Charles Henry Ross and inked and later fully illustrated by his French wife Emilie de Tessier
Another good possibility. (I did not know about this one; thx.:)) It suggests the "one-man shop" as a starting point is likely (as I expected), so it'll take a few years to get to the "team" model used even by DC, let alone the Marvel Bullpen approach.

Given the dime novels were inspired by real Western "heroes", I'd bet the first books would be Westerns, & not superhero books; might be the superhero as a genre doesn't happen til quite a bit later. Maybe not at all?:eek: Romance & crime ("true" or not)/detective, soon after Western, seems likely.

In that vein, do you get the likes of Poe's Dupin, Doyle's Holmes, Blythe's Sexton Blake, or Nick Carter as comics characters?
 
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