Earlier War of Spanish Succession?

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After doing a little research on Charles II of Spain and the Spanish Hapsburgs in general I came across what I thought was an interesting POD. Namely this...

WI Charles II dies in infancy? Say before 1661 is finished? Philip IV is set to kick the bucket around 1665. How would the Spanish Succession play out 35 years earlier?

Now the way I see it you have 2 main contenders for the Spanish Throne
-Louis Le Grand Dauphin son of French King Louis XIV and Philip IV's daughter by far the closest candidate I believe...

-Leopold I of Austria, a fellow Hapsburg who in OTL was the one Philip IV's will gave the crown of Spain to.

Now in OTL there was the Bavarian prince, a Wittelsbach who died in 1699 precipitating OTL's war of Spanish Succession but he wasn't born until 1693 (I think).

Now the question is who becomes King of Spain? Is there a war of Spanish Succession? If so what does it look like? Who lines up against who? The key to this question really is France. By 1665 none of the economic reforms had kicked in, those reforms I believe had a big impact on France's ability to wage war during the latter part of the 17th century. Could they be implemented in wartime?

In OTL the pro-French faction was large enough by 1700 to nominate the French candidate for the Spanish Throne. Would it be the same if the event were say 35 years earlier? Or would the pro-Austrian faction emerge victorious and Leopold ends up being crowned King of Spain renewing the Hapsburg alliance?

The final angle I wish to present on this whole subject is that of John of Austria. In OTL he was extremely popular until his falling out with Maria-Therese, Charles II's mom and regent dieing in 1678 I believe. WI, unable to produce a legitimate heir, Philip IV, in desperation legitimizes his relationship with John's mom (an actress) thereby making John of Austria a legitimate child and therefore the heir to the throne?

Possible?

I'd really like to hear the thoughts of others on this matter since this area of History isn't my Forte.
 
On the one side the reforms hadn't kicked in yet, as you noted, and I assume there was still a lot of bad blood between France and Spain after the Treaty of the Pyrenees. On the other hand, Charles II should be in Louis' pocket, the Dutch are still in good relations with France, and Turkey is in a good position to threaten Austria's back. Furthermore, in OTL the 2nd Anglo-Dutch War started in 1664 or 1665. Even if it doesn't, if Clarendon's removed there's going to be a lot of bad blood between England and Holland, and with sufficient skill Louis can get one or both of them not to oppose him.

I'd put my money on the Dauphin. Even if he doesn't get the throne France is still going to get Franche-Comte and part of Spanish Netherlands, possibly all of them.
 
There is a heir in the Peninsula in 1661, actually. Though bastard, John of Austria Jr. was recognized as son of Philip II, achieved the title of Infante de España and controlled big parts of the government during his father's reign. He was a conceited and power-hungry man but at the same time a good diplomat, military estrategist and not so bad administrator. Plus, he was quite popular till the disastrous famine of 1677. Had Charles II not be born or death in infancy, he would have the only stone in his way to the throne removed, because he already had the Spanish government in his pocket. So, in the end, this delay any problem regarding the Spanish succession till his death in 1679.

EDIT: Damn, I didn't read the last paragraph. Well, in fact it is pretty easy: La Calderona was from noble origin after all.
 
Does anyone have any additional information on John of Austria the Younger?

Mostly regarding whether he married or not and more importantly, whether he had any children (or was capable of fathering children for that matter...he is a Hapsburg afterall!)

Oh and why he kicked the bucket at 50 would be a nice tidbit of information to come across!

Thanks in advance!
 
Does anyone have any additional information on John of Austria the Younger?

Mostly regarding whether he married or not and more importantly, whether he had any children (or was capable of fathering children for that matter...he is a Hapsburg afterall!)

Oh and why he kicked the bucket at 50 would be a nice tidbit of information to come across!

Thanks in advance!

But only half Habsburg after all... though I know that while his father was at his deathbed he suggested him* that he would like to marry his half sister in order to improve his position in the succession line. Philip IV, utterly ofended by the idea, expelled him from his bedroom with a stick. (A bit funny given the fact that Philip himself had married his 16-year-old niece when he was 44, which is the same or worse in my opinion). If John was successful, his planned marriage wouldn't be a good thing for his possible issue. From what I know he never married though he had a daughter out of wedlock with the daughter or niece of the painter Diego de Rivera, so this proves that at least, he could father women. :D**

His death reamins a bit obscure to me. Apparently it was some kind of disease that killed him shortly after he caught it (perhaps plague, I guess?). In any case he died alone and forgotten, even his brother didn't attend his funerals.

* The complete incident is utterly bizarre. John didn't say a word during it, but made his intentions clear when he shown a painting to his father in which Saturn looked happy at his son Jupiter in an incestous relation.

** Interesting possibility for an alternate War of Spanish Succession: While women could be heirs to the throne of Castile, Aragon had salic law at the time.
 
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* The complete incident is utterly bizarre. John didn't said a word during it, but made his intentions clear when he shown a painting to his father in which Saturn looked happy at his son Jupiter in an incestous relation.

.

Another weird and wonderful OTL bit of History that people wouldn't credit if it was in a fictionalised version !

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 

Thande

Donor
This was the time of the Great Plague in England - was that also felt on the continent or am I thinking of the other one?

Either way, I do wonder if the very shaky, only-restored-five-years-before, Stuart regime in England would get involved in any such war and what the longterm effects would be...
 

Thande

Donor
I've searched Wikipedia and found that there was also a plague epidemic in Spain at that time (it ended in 1685): Great Plague of Seville

I suspected there would be at least some wider effect (when we learned about it in school, they had a tendency to conflate the Black Death and the Great Plague, 300 years apart :rolleyes: ). Thanks.

Of course, if there are a lot of troop movements in Spain itself because of any war, this might lead to a worse plague epidemic there and possibly spreading abroad.
 
With Charles II dying as an infant it would be more complicated than the OTL at least then Charles II had named a heir for the Spanish Empire...
 
The Last of the Hapsburgs

Part I: The Last of the Hapsburgs

As the Hapsburg dynasty in Spain entered the 1660’s many could see it was on it’s last legs. Centuries of inbreeding had resulted in the dynasty petering out. Philip IV remained unable to produce a male heir that would survive to adulthood. During the tumultuous 1660’s many Spanish nobles put their hopes in Philip’s bastard son John of Austria the Younger, however these were dashed when John was killed when trying to escape the Spanish defeat at the Battle of Castel Rodrigo (1)

Following the death of John at the hands of the Portuguese the only hope for Spain to avoid a nasty succession was pinned on the sickly Charles II. A product of centuries of incestuous pairings, Charles II was born with numerous defects. It was to him that the throne of Spain was left to after the death of Philip IV in mid-1665. However the 4 year old king of Spain would not last the year succumbing to the health problems caused by his defects before 1665 had come to a close.

Having lost 2 kings and a very promising heir apparent to the throne, Spain was in dire straights on the eve of 1666. With no possible heirs left on the Peninsula, Spain would be forced to undergo a very painful succession, one that would cost more than it was worth in blood and treasure.

On the eve of 1666 there were 2 main contenders for the throne of the Spanish Empire. The first, and strongest claim was held by Louis, the son of Louis XIV of France and his wife Maria Therese, daughter of Philip IV. Against him was pitted the forces of Austria and the Holy Roman Empire under Leopold I, a more distant claim to the throne but the chosen successor of Philip IV.

Though originally planning to use the death of Philip IV as a pretext for seizing the territories of Franche-Compte and the Spanish Netherlands, Louis XIV jumped at the opportunity to gain a worthy inheritance for his son and prevent the once great Spanish-Austrian Empire that had dominated the 16th century from reforming. Against him were pitted the forces of Austria under Leopold I and the Holy Roman Empire who wished to curtail the rise of France and had made peace with the Ottomans for this express purpose.

Meanwhile in Spain the nation was torn between Pro-Austrian and Pro-French factions. In the end however the pro-Austrian side won out and Philip IV’s will was accepted. Leopold I would be Spain’s preferred candidate for the throne. Not wanting to see the Spanish and Austrians unite again, Louis declared war. The war of the Spanish Succession had begun.

The Early Phases
The early phases of the War of Spanish Succession saw numerous battles fought in three main theaters the Low Countries, Spain and Central Europe. French forces under the able commanders Turenne and the Prince de Conde launched dual campaigns against the Spanish Netherlands and Franche-Compte. The poorly equipped and supplied Spanish Forces in said regions capitulated quickly leading to the French giving this phase of the war the nickname the “promenade militaire”. This was coupled with a surprisingly effective French campaign in Catalonia resulting in the bloodless capture of Barcelona.

Yet the ease of the French Expansion worried many, most notably those in the United Provinces of the Netherlands. Not wanting France to grow more powerful the Dutch soon drew together a coalition of England and Sweden to enter the war on the side of Leopold. “The Grand Alliance” as it was called would ensure that France, one of the greatest military powers of the day would have more than a run for it’s money.

Excellent French Commanders and poor coordination amongst members of the Grand Alliance resulted in the French being victorious during the early part of the war. Forces dispatched by Leopold and representatives from the Grand Alliance were turned back leaving France victorious on the battlefield. These victories combined with numerous economic reforms would ensure that the War of Spanish Succession would last much longer than anyone anticipated.

Enter the Turk
Initial French victories had exactly the effect Louis XIV intended them to. In 1668 the Ottomans would disregard the peace treaty signed between them and the Hapsburgs signed 5 years prior thereby distracting Leopold I once again and allowing Louis to focus all his might on defeating the other members of the Alliance as well as continuing the offensive into Spain.

However though the Turkish resurgence would prove to be a short term boon for the French it would end up being a sordid one in the long term. Called “The Christian Turk” by most of Europe, France soon found any possible supporters few and far between. Once again the Vatican formed a “Holy League” to support Austria in defending Christendom from the rampaging Turkish hordes. The Kingdom of Poland and the Republic of Venice joined Austria in their war against the Turk and by extension the war against France.

The entry of the Ottomans onto the scene in 1668 would prolong the war of Spanish Succession for over a decade, however it would be this very thing and it’s major damage to the reputation of France that would lead to the end of the war.

The Conclusion of the War
The war of Spanish Succession would be one of the hardest fought in history matching it’s deadly predecessor the Thirty Years War. Battles would be waged across Europe as well as in the American colonies. Superior commanders coupled with French economic reforms allowed the nation to overcome long odds and defeat the forces of the Grand Alliance time in and time out.

By the time the War entered it’s 14th year, Europe was exhausted. The Ottomans had been defeated once again and this time had lost significant territories in the Balkans. France meanwhile had fought the Grand Alliance to a standstill but was exhausted and unable to continue. By virtue of perseverance, the Grand Alliance had won out. Many prominent historians speculate that had France had more time to institute it’s economic reforms they might have emerged the undisputed victor in the conflict.

The Treaty of Aix-a-Chappelle saw France gain the territory of Franche-Compte in exchange for giving up it’s claim on the Spanish Throne. Leopold I of Austria was crowned Leopold I of Spain as well and promptly granted independence to Portugal concluding their long fought war of independence from Spain. In addition the treaty saw France lose the entirety of New France to England in exchange for keeping their more profitable Caribbean colonies.

France had lost, though the depressing blight that was Franche-Compte was now incorporated into the Empire, it had lost not only New France but the chance to prevent the Hapsburg Resurgence. The Kingdoms of Spain and Austria were now united in a Personal Union under Leopold I and by losing the War of Spanish Succession, France had been cornered and reduced to a mere Regional power.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
So what do y'all think?

Is it anywhere near accurate?

What will the Personal Union of Spain and Austria mean?

Comments please
 
Not wanting France to grow more powerful the Dutch soon drew together a coalition of England and Sweden to enter the war on the side of Leopold.

I don't see it. Sweden could work, but England? Charles II was pro-French and saw the Netherlands as the real enemy. If you're thinking of the Triple Alliance, I personally expect Charles would have bailed out if it had led to war.

The Kingdom of Poland and the Republic of Venice joined Austria in their war against the Turk and by extension the war against France.

Venice was at war with Turkey since 1644, the siege of Candia started in 1648 and would only end in 1669 in OTL - the longest siege in history, I believe. And they had traditionally good relations with France. They's have to be crazy to go to war with it.

Poland-Lithuania was fighting a war with Muscovy that would only end in 1667 in OTL and in which it was allied with Crimea. They were also trying to recover from the Deluge, one of the more catastrophic times in its history. They'd have to be crazy to go to war with Turkey, least of all France.

Leopold I of Austria was crowned Leopold I of Spain as well and promptly granted independence to Portugal concluding their long fought war of independence from Spain.

Oh yeah, I forgot about this: England, the Netherlands, Sweden, Venice, and Poland-Lithuania all have good reasons to fear the rebirth of Charles V's empire. They'd rather seek a compromise candidate than support Leopold. Witness what happened in the OTL War of Spanish Succession.

In addition the treaty saw France lose the entirety of New France to England in exchange for keeping their more profitable Caribbean colonies.

I don't think the English were in any position to conquer all of New France at this time.
 
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The Last of the Hapsburgs

Part I: The Last of the Hapsburgs

As the Hapsburg dynasty in Spain entered the 1660’s many could see it was on it’s last legs. Centuries of inbreeding had resulted in the dynasty petering out. Philip IV remained unable to produce a male heir that would survive to adulthood. During the tumultuous 1660’s many Spanish nobles put their hopes in Philip’s bastard son John of Austria the Younger, however these were dashed when John was killed when trying to escape the Spanish defeat at the Battle of Castel Rodrigo (1)

Following the death of John at the hands of the Portuguese the only hope for Spain to avoid a nasty succession was pinned on the sickly Charles II. A product of centuries of incestuous pairings, Charles II was born with numerous defects. It was to him that the throne of Spain was left to after the death of Philip IV in mid-1665. However the 4 year old king of Spain would not last the year succumbing to the health problems caused by his defects before 1665 had come to a close.

Having lost 2 kings and a very promising heir apparent to the throne, Spain was in dire straights on the eve of 1666. With no possible heirs left on the Peninsula, Spain would be forced to undergo a very painful succession, one that would cost more than it was worth in blood and treasure.

On the eve of 1666 there were 2 main contenders for the throne of the Spanish Empire. The first, and strongest claim was held by Louis, the son of Louis XIV of France and his wife Maria Therese, daughter of Philip IV. Against him was pitted the forces of Austria and the Holy Roman Empire under Leopold I, a more distant claim to the throne but the chosen successor of Philip IV.

Though originally planning to use the death of Philip IV as a pretext for seizing the territories of Franche-Compte and the Spanish Netherlands, Louis XIV jumped at the opportunity to gain a worthy inheritance for his son and prevent the once great Spanish-Austrian Empire that had dominated the 16th century from reforming. Against him were pitted the forces of Austria under Leopold I and the Holy Roman Empire who wished to curtail the rise of France and had made peace with the Ottomans for this express purpose.

Meanwhile in Spain the nation was torn between Pro-Austrian and Pro-French factions. In the end however the pro-Austrian side won out and Philip IV’s will was accepted. Leopold I would be Spain’s preferred candidate for the throne. Not wanting to see the Spanish and Austrians unite again, Louis declared war. The war of the Spanish Succession had begun.

The Early Phases
The early phases of the War of Spanish Succession saw numerous battles fought in three main theaters the Low Countries, Spain and Central Europe. French forces under the able commanders Turenne and the Prince de Conde launched dual campaigns against the Spanish Netherlands and Franche-Compte. The poorly equipped and supplied Spanish Forces in said regions capitulated quickly leading to the French giving this phase of the war the nickname the “promenade militaire”. This was coupled with a surprisingly effective French campaign in Catalonia resulting in the bloodless capture of Barcelona.

Yet the ease of the French Expansion worried many, most notably those in the United Provinces of the Netherlands. Not wanting France to grow more powerful the Dutch soon drew together a coalition of England and Sweden to enter the war on the side of Leopold. “The Grand Alliance” as it was called would ensure that France, one of the greatest military powers of the day would have more than a run for it’s money.

Excellent French Commanders and poor coordination amongst members of the Grand Alliance resulted in the French being victorious during the early part of the war. Forces dispatched by Leopold and representatives from the Grand Alliance were turned back leaving France victorious on the battlefield. These victories combined with numerous economic reforms would ensure that the War of Spanish Succession would last much longer than anyone anticipated.

Enter the Turk
Initial French victories had exactly the effect Louis XIV intended them to. In 1668 the Ottomans would disregard the peace treaty signed between them and the Hapsburgs signed 5 years prior thereby distracting Leopold I once again and allowing Louis to focus all his might on defeating the other members of the Alliance as well as continuing the offensive into Spain.

However though the Turkish resurgence would prove to be a short term boon for the French it would end up being a sordid one in the long term. Called “The Christian Turk” by most of Europe, France soon found any possible supporters few and far between. Once again the Vatican formed a “Holy League” to support Austria in defending Christendom from the rampaging Turkish hordes. The Kingdom of Poland and the Republic of Venice joined Austria in their war against the Turk and by extension the war against France.

The entry of the Ottomans onto the scene in 1668 would prolong the war of Spanish Succession for over a decade, however it would be this very thing and it’s major damage to the reputation of France that would lead to the end of the war.

The Conclusion of the War
The war of Spanish Succession would be one of the hardest fought in history matching it’s deadly predecessor the Thirty Years War. Battles would be waged across Europe as well as in the American colonies. Superior commanders coupled with French economic reforms allowed the nation to overcome long odds and defeat the forces of the Grand Alliance time in and time out.

By the time the War entered it’s 14th year, Europe was exhausted. The Ottomans had been defeated once again and this time had lost significant territories in the Balkans. France meanwhile had fought the Grand Alliance to a standstill but was exhausted and unable to continue. By virtue of perseverance, the Grand Alliance had won out. Many prominent historians speculate that had France had more time to institute it’s economic reforms they might have emerged the undisputed victor in the conflict.

The Treaty of Aix-a-Chappelle saw France gain the territory of Franche-Compte in exchange for giving up it’s claim on the Spanish Throne. Leopold I of Austria was crowned Leopold I of Spain as well and promptly granted independence to Portugal concluding their long fought war of independence from Spain. In addition the treaty saw France lose the entirety of New France to England in exchange for keeping their more profitable Caribbean colonies.

France had lost, though the depressing blight that was Franche-Compte was now incorporated into the Empire, it had lost not only New France but the chance to prevent the Hapsburg Resurgence. The Kingdoms of Spain and Austria were now united in a Personal Union under Leopold I and by losing the War of Spanish Succession, France had been cornered and reduced to a mere Regional power.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
So what do y'all think?

Is it anywhere near accurate?

What will the Personal Union of Spain and Austria mean?

Comments please

This is pretty good. Just what I wanted to see, the Greater Astros-Spanish empire!!!! I
 
At this time, the duke of Savoy, could still claim a part of the Spanish inheritance, since Savoy hadn't received the dowry of the marriage of infanta Catherine Michelle, daughter of Philip II, with duke Charles Emmanuel I of Savoy. It's this claim, which IOTL lead to Savoy being able to get the kingdom of Sicily, later Sardinia, and bits of the duchy of Milan, at the peace treaty, which ended the OTL war of the Spanish Succession.

Other potential territorial switches, to further compensate France, could be the duchies of Lorraine & Bar (often occupied by France in this period), which duke then could be compensated with a bit of the Spanish Inheritance, like Milan, the Southern Netherlands or maybe Naples (they had a old claim on that kingdom; maybe Sicily could be added, but that might be a bit much).

In fact reducing Austria's share of the Spanish Inheritance would be something all other Powers will agree on.
 

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