Earlier Second Front in WW2

Guess not :(

Staunton shows a suprisingly hefty OB for the US Army in the spring of 1943. If the extraction of cadres from specific divisions were slowed that spring & summer quite a few would have been ready to ship to Europe. maybe I can complete reviewing that this week
 
About the actual number of U.S., French, & other troops actually enganged:
http://rethinkinghistory.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/statistical-confusion-whose-troops.html

That is well worth a read, tho it is a start-not the end of the point the author is making. One of the persons posting a comment on that site asked about a similar study of the US naval contribution, the same would apply to the air power contribution. If a USAAF aircraft Wing is the equivalent of a ground combat division in firepower and logistics draw then the equation or balance changes noticeably, the US had considerable air forces in combat from mid 1942.

One of the questions I did not see asked or answered in that essay is where the balance of the eight million US soldiers in uniform to 1944 were. In terms of ground combat and ground service they were not doing much more than training in the US, A few others were idle in Iceland (5th Infantry Div) or the UK (29th Inf). But the balance, over fifty divisions spent 1943 in North America either training, or splitting off cadres for the last of the new divisions. Nearly half the ground combat forces the US formed had completed their first training cycle by early 1942, those which did move overseas completed a second training cycle at or before the end of 1943. Some actually went through a third before they entered combat in 1944. Part of the training was necessitated by large scale removal of cadres for new units, part from removal of trained men for casualty replacements, and part because of the extensive reorganization of the ground combat units in 1941-42. The change from the square to triangular division required recycling through training for several months to asorb the changes in material and doctrine.

In any case there were in any particular month between 25 & 35 divisions in the US that had completed or were near completion of their first or second training cycle. Also a dozen plus independant infantry regiments that had been split from the square divisions & not assigned to a new infantry division. The usual first claim for these not being sent into combat was the problem with Allied cargo shipping. There were serious problems with allocating cargo ships, and a real shortage of ships vs needs, but there was also the factor of questionable allocations. MacArthurs South Pacific offensives of 1943 placed requirement for cargo ships that had been entirely absent from planning in 1942. The reduction of the Bolero operation in 1943 only partially offset that. Neither was the extended campaign in Italy from October 1943 anticipated, and the necessity to provide the south italian population with grain and coal for the winter of 1943 anticipated. There is still some evidence that had Marshal been willing several more US corps could have been sent to the Mediterranean. There is also some suspicion he & his supporters simply did not do so in order to preserve that for what he regarded as the only campaign of decisive value against Germany.

Regardless of accusations made to Marshals decisions the fact remains that there were a large number of trained US ground combat units available for use in Europe in 1943.
 
What were the capacity of Dieppe & Calais, or the other French ports for that matter? Ruppenthals history of the US Army logistics in op. Overlord states the peacetime capacity of Cherbourg was nominally 8,000 to 10,000 tons unloaded perday.
 

elkarlo

Banned
That's a worse idea than invading Italy.:eek::eek:

Have you looked at the geography of the outlets? The Germans could block the routes out with a couple of brigades scattered on the passes.:eek:
Indeed. It would be much like WWI's Salonikan front. Just a massive internment camp.
 
Why isnt the Italian campaign ever mentioned as the second front and Normandie as the third front?

Sloppy thinking? From the start in 1943 the entire Mediterranean region was in effect a second front. In January Germany was sending a entire army to Tunisia, and had been forced to form a army of occupation in Vichy France. In the air Germany committed nearly as many air units to the Mediterranean as in the east. Over the entire year Germany lost a complete army in Tunisia, the per capita losses in the ground units in Italy was similar to the eastern front, 60-70% of Germanys air losses for 1943 were over the Mediterranean or western Europe. By September 1943 Gemany had a army group in Italy & the equivalent of another on occupation and anti partisan duties in south France and the Balkans.

The critics of the lack of a 'Second Front' dismiss the Mediteranean front as a stratigic dead end. Nothing the Allies could do there would damage Germany severely enough to end the war. They argue the Allied armies had to leave that region and get at Germany more directly. I'll leave folks to draw their own conclusions on this.
 
I beleive Dale Cozort did something like this. It's in one of his news letters I believe and it has it being fairly successful.
You don't happen to remember the name do you? Tried searching for it but Google has let me down.


How about invading Denmark/North Germany?
Yeah, that's not going to happen. Ever. It's way outside of fighter coverage, the landing force is going to be boxed up in the North Sea with Axis territory on three sides, it's right next to Germany with good rail links so they can bring in troops faster than the Allies, and even if they did successfully take control of Denmark the geography of the place gives you only a narrow front that favours the defender not even counting things like the Kiel canal.
 
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