Earlier Olympic revival

Thande

Donor
In OTL, there were several events in the late 19th century which used the word Olympics and evoked the feel of them before they were officially reinstated. Also, the philhellenism that informed the revival of the Olympics was arguably present from at least the beginning of the 19th century and probably before (cf. European attitudes to the Greek War of Independence). So (a) what might be a catalyst for an Olympic revival earlier on, and (b) what might it look like?
 

Susano

Banned
Hm. The Olympics starting as a sort of fundraiser for the Greek War of Independance? Thats what immidatly came to mind... because, as you said, there was after all an europe wide philhellene movement...
 

Thande

Donor
Hm. The Olympics starting as a sort of fundraiser for the Greek War of Independance? Thats what immidatly came to mind... because, as you said, there was after all an europe wide philhellene movement...

I just think it would be interesting to see how nations would compete...I was reading about the 1908 Olympics earlier and apparently there were some things I didn't expect, like the fact that Finland and Russia, and Austria and Hungary, both competed as separate teams. Of course, if many of the small German states were to participate in a pre-1870 Olympics... ;)
 
I just think it would be interesting to see how nations would compete...I was reading about the 1908 Olympics earlier and apparently there were some things I didn't expect, like the fact that Finland and Russia, and Austria and Hungary, both competed as separate teams. Of course, if many of the small German states were to participate in a pre-1870 Olympics... ;)

Actually, there was never an Austro-Hungarian unified team, and Austria and Hungary competed separate, together with Bohemia, in every Olympics between 1896 and 1912. In Football, the austrian and hungarian federations were founding members of FIFA, but never considered merging into a single federation.
 
Actually, there was never an Austro-Hungarian unified team, and Austria and Hungary competed separate, together with Bohemia, in every Olympics between 1896 and 1912. In Football, the austrian and hungarian federations were founding members of FIFA, but never considered merging into a single federation.

Interesting. If it had survived somehow Britain wouldn't be allow in FIFA in having multiple teams from a single political state.

I think I remember reading that in the 1st 2-3 modern Olympics there were no national teams or at least many people competing as individuals. Presumably it became simpler to organise when you had national federations arranging things, not to mention enabling the funding of people getting to distant events.

Steve
 

Susano

Banned
I just think it would be interesting to see how nations would compete...I was reading about the 1908 Olympics earlier and apparently there were some things I didn't expect, like the fact that Finland and Russia, and Austria and Hungary, both competed as separate teams. Of course, if many of the small German states were to participate in a pre-1870 Olympics... ;)

This could become somewhat emberassing even, when the world is shown what petty states exist in Germany. A tennis match between Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg and Reuß Younger Line? Please, the international audience would giggle all the time!
 
Interesting. If the Olympics are reinstated before Germany and Italy are unified, each region or "state" can field a team. Likewise, the more populous American states would field their own teams. Large industrial states like New York, Pennsylvania and Ohio would have their own teams. Smaller states might team together or join states large large enough to field teams.

The trend might survive today, so large nations would be forced to divide their talent between regions. The benefit: with 1000 teams, the smaller countries stand a better chance for medals. The drawback: the events will last much longer to accommodate the larger number of athletes.
 
Ooh, Olympics in LTTW (at least, riding with the assumption that all pre-1900 threads by Thande are 'undercover research threads').

Anyway, I have a feeling that if the Olympics were to be revived, it would be a vastly different system than OTL, simply due to the much different geopolitics (for example, some of the German statelets couldn't even field a whole Olympics team). Also, as far as I'm aware, the lines between nations and countries and regions were far more blurry back then (between the terms, not the actual places themselves).
 
Maybe Robespierre could revive the Olympics. Of course, France's enemies would have their own Olympics. Of course Ancient Greece did have more than one "Olympics".
 

Susano

Banned
Maybe Robespierre could revive the Olympics. Of course, France's enemies would have their own Olympics. Of course Ancient Greece did have more than one "Olympics".

Ancient Greece did have several Holy Games, but only one at Mt. Olymp ;)
 
Ancient Greece did have several Holy Games, but only one at Mt. Olymp ;)

Mt. Olympus??? Olympic Games were held in Olympia in Peloponese!!!! Other sacred games were the "Nemea" held in Nemea in Peloponese honouring Zeus, the "Isthmia" held in Corinth honoring Poseidon, the "Pythia" held in Delphi honouring Apollo, the "Heraia" held in Argos, Samos and Delphi honouring Hera, the Panathinaia held in Athens honouring Athena, the Dionysia held in Athens hounouring Dionysus, the "Artemis Orthia" Feast held in Sparta honouring Artemis and many many more...
 
Last edited:
Glancing at Wiki, there were some so-called "Olympick Games" or similar events were held in Europe as early as the 16th century. Here's an unlikely possibility: the Renaissance, with its renewed interest in all things Hellenistic, sparks a revival of the Olympic games. Although it would be hard to do in Greece due to the Ottomans, but maybe in a TL where the Ottomans don't rise after the Seljuks, or the late Byzantines pull it together?

Or there could be limited Olympics in Renaissance Italy, which eventually spread to include much of Europe.
 

Hendryk

Banned
Reviving the Olympic Games in the wake of Greek independence would be interesting, but it's true the Renaissance is another possibility, as it would tie in with the rediscovery of Hellenic aestheticism.
 

Thande

Donor
I hadn't considered the Renaissance. I don't think it was a particularly nationalistic era, so we might see more emphasis on athletes as individuals rather than where they come from. (Although that was arguably true even in OTL at the first three or four Olympic Games, despite the fact that it was an era of strong nationalism generally - hence nowadays the debate over whether one athlete at the first Olympics in 1896 was Bulgarian, Swiss or French...)
 

Hendryk

Banned
I hadn't considered the Renaissance. I don't think it was a particularly nationalistic era, so we might see more emphasis on athletes as individuals rather than where they come from.
Good point. But if nationalism wasn't an issue back then, religious affiliation definitely was. It would be a challenge to keep the Games religion-free enough to have Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox (not to mention Muslims) willing to participate.
 

Thande

Donor
Good point. But if nationalism wasn't an issue back then, religious affiliation definitely was. It would be a challenge to keep the Games religion-free enough to have Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox (not to mention Muslims) willing to participate.

Well, I think the centre of philhellenism in the sense that's being debated here was Italy, so it would presumably be a Catholic-only event. One could perhaps see the Protestant states setting up their own rival event, a bit like how the US and Soviets boycotted each others' back in the 1980s in OTL.

Probably the only way you could get one where people from any religion could compete would be if the Ottomans organised it (though there would probably still be a pro-Muslim bias) - which I suppose is possible if they wanted to present themselves as the true heirs to Hellenic civilisation via Byzantium.
 
What about middle to late 18th century, with all the Neoclasicism going on and the nobles looking for something different in which spend their boring lives?
 
Top