Earlier Jagiellonika Weddings

Just a cursory glance at the marriage dates of Zygmunt I, king of Poland's daughters shows that only the two eldest daughters were married by the time of their dad's death - and they were the only two who had married at remotely reasonable ages (Hedwig at age 22, and Isabella at age 20). Naturally Zygmunt's death lowered the marriage opportunities of his remaining daughters, Sofia, Anna and Katarzyna - who married at 34, 52 and 36 respectively.

Why was it that those girls weren't married off during Zygmunt's lifetime - in 1548 they would've been 26 (Sofia), 25 (Anna), and 22 (Katarzyna) (already older for the European marriage market, but not too old). Or was it much like Louis XV's daughters - simply not enough surviving princes on the market to offset the princesses? And what would the earlier marriages of those Polish princesses mean for the future of the PLC?
 
Well, I think the main question would be where do those princesses marry? Catholic or Protestant?

OTL the girls (I'm not sure about Isabella, though) married Protestant princes because let's just say there weren't a whole lot of non-Habsburg/non-quasi-Habsburg princelings floating around in the Catholic pool. Sure there was Charles d'Orleans in France, and Alfonso II d'Este in Italy, but while there were Franco-Polish relations IDK if one of the princesses might be considered for either.

If you go for Team Habsburg you could have several matches - D. Felipe II of Spain (b.1527), Archduke Ferdinand of Austria (b. 1529), Duke Emanuele Filiberto of Savoy (b. 1528). AFAIK Katarzyna was mentioned as a possible bride for Ferdinand, but also for Albrecht of Prussia and Ivan IV of Russia. For some reason unbeknownst to me, Anna was never really considered marriage material - resulting in her being left an old maid who married at 52 - since ambassadors always broached the subject of marriage with Katarzyna rather than with Anna (who was older).

Also, Hedwig was considered by Gustaf I of Sweden as a possible 2nd wife, but Zygmunt refused on the grounds of Gustaf's rocky relationship with the Catholic church at that point (or at least that was the official reply given).
 
Easy. Have Sigismund Augustus die in some accident shortly after taking the throne. Then his sisters will be seen as potential heirs of Polish and Lithuanian thrones so there should be a lot of candidates for their spouses.
 
Easy. Have Sigismund Augustus die in some accident shortly after taking the throne. Then his sisters will be seen as potential heirs of Polish and Lithuanian thrones so there should be a lot of candidates for their spouses.

Would those sisters, I wonder, be considered as mere "heiress" to Poland-Lithuania (assuming the Commonwealth and elective monarchy doesn't have an earlier birthdate due to Sigismund earlier demise), like Anna Jagiellonika was? Or would they be crowned as queen-regnant as Jadwyga was? Poland had had a female king (Jadwyga was crowned as king to emphasize that she was a queen in her own right rather than a consort) at that point, but then would they decide that Sigismund I's eldest daughter, Hedwig, Electress of Brandenburg becomes queen resulting in an awkward union with Brandenburg*? Or Isabella, his next eldest, titular queen-dowager of Hungary and ally of the sultan? Or Sofia, who would be the oldest daughter unwed? She could be married off to any Piasts that are still floating around, couldn't she? Or would there be an insistance on her marrying a foreign prince?

*After all, the Hohenzollerns weren't too popular in Poland - particularly after Sigismund I had allowed them to seize the duchy of Prussia. Stanczyk - his famous jester - was upbraided by Sigismund due to running from a bear released from its cage that the king could hunt it. The jester's reply was "Majesty, surely it is not an act of cowardice to run from a bear, which by an act of foolishness was allowed out of the cage it was kept".
 
Out of curiosity, if these girls were to marry earlier would they be more likely to have larger families (Isabella only had one, but that wasn't really her fault; Sophie and Anna had none, and Catherine had three (two surviving)) or would they share their brother's unfortunate low fertility?
 
The Jagiellons were quite an anomaly amongst Catholic dynasties. In which the majority tended to marry quite young (see the Valois, the Trastamara , the Jagiellons tended to marry at an older age--but they also lived quite long lives, too. It's a testment to their longevity that Catherine Jagiellon herself married at thirty-six, an age at which most princesses would be considered absolute spinsters and of no value on the marriage market. Honestly, she had nothing going for her, and it's nothing like Queen Elizabeth of England continuing to play the marriage game into her late fourties: there you have a sovereign and a potential kingdom for the suitor, and here you have nothing of great value except connections to the Polish royal house.

I don't think it is an issue of a lack of males. You can look at the 18th century family trees and see how unlucky Louis XV was in his marital exploits with all his numerous surviving daughters and only a single surviving son (with a total of two sons born all together, IIRC). The Jagiellons were simply kind of different... even their kings tended to come to the thrones late in life and married and beget children when most men their age would be in the twilight of their reigns and grandfathers (Sigismund II August was born when Sigismund I, called the old was in his fifties). Anna Jagiellon, for instance, was considered a potential match for a son of François Ier, and Catherine herself had other suitors aside from the Duke of Finland.

From what I can gather, the matter of marriage of the three sisters was essentially ignored by both the King as well as his Queen, Bona Sforza, and there were only serious considerations following his death in 1548, by time most of the princesses were beginning to get up in age as noted before, but nothing too insurmountable. The Jagiellons were definitely a fairly fertile dynasty, especially considering their later marriages (and for women) even later childbirths. Catherine's history is a pretty sure testament, given one of her children was born when she was in her early forties.
 
Would those sisters, I wonder, be considered as mere "heiress" to Poland-Lithuania (assuming the Commonwealth and elective monarchy doesn't have an earlier birthdate due to Sigismund earlier demise), like Anna Jagiellonika was? Or would they be crowned as queen-regnant as Jadwyga was? Poland had had a female king (Jadwyga was crowned as king to emphasize that she was a queen in her own right rather than a consort) at that point, but then would they decide that Sigismund I's eldest daughter, Hedwig, Electress of Brandenburg becomes queen resulting in an awkward union with Brandenburg*? Or Isabella, his next eldest, titular queen-dowager of Hungary and ally of the sultan? Or Sofia, who would be the oldest daughter unwed? She could be married off to any Piasts that are still floating around, couldn't she? Or would there be an insistance on her marrying a foreign prince?

*After all, the Hohenzollerns weren't too popular in Poland - particularly after Sigismund I had allowed them to seize the duchy of Prussia. Stanczyk - his famous jester - was upbraided by Sigismund due to running from a bear released from its cage that the king could hunt it. The jester's reply was "Majesty, surely it is not an act of cowardice to run from a bear, which by an act of foolishness was allowed out of the cage it was kept".

Isabella could be married to Jan II the Good of Opole and the Habsburgs, for the Habsburgs, they had plans with Poland, I think a Habsburg Poland will be the best for Poland in the long run - we would likely see all or most Polish inhabited areas back to the polish throne, I think they planned to give back at least a part of Silesia to Poland which did happen in OTL - they also planned to put a part of Silesia to their 'Poland' in the U.S. of Austria.

The partitioners of poland were in some way heirs of Przemysl II of Poland and Casimir III, Catherine the Great was descended from a sister of Przemysl II and Maria Theresa and Frederick the Great were descended from Casimir III.

The Jagiellons were quite an anomaly amongst Catholic dynasties. In which the majority tended to marry quite young (see the Valois, the Trastamara , the Jagiellons tended to marry at an older age--but they also lived quite long lives, too. It's a testment to their longevity that Catherine Jagiellon herself married at thirty-six, an age at which most princesses would be considered absolute spinsters and of no value on the marriage market. Honestly, she had nothing going for her, and it's nothing like Queen Elizabeth of England continuing to play the marriage game into her late fourties: there you have a sovereign and a potential kingdom for the suitor, and here you have nothing of great value except connections to the Polish royal house.

I don't think it is an issue of a lack of males. You can look at the 18th century family trees and see how unlucky Louis XV was in his marital exploits with all his numerous surviving daughters and only a single surviving son (with a total of two sons born all together, IIRC). The Jagiellons were simply kind of different... even their kings tended to come to the thrones late in life and married and beget children when most men their age would be in the twilight of their reigns and grandfathers (Sigismund II August was born when Sigismund I, called the old was in his fifties). Anna Jagiellon, for instance, was considered a potential match for a son of François Ier, and Catherine herself had other suitors aside from the Duke of Finland.

From what I can gather, the matter of marriage of the three sisters was essentially ignored by both the King as well as his Queen, Bona Sforza, and there were only serious considerations following his death in 1548, by time most of the princesses were beginning to get up in age as noted before, but nothing too insurmountable. The Jagiellons were definitely a fairly fertile dynasty, especially considering their later marriages (and for women) even later childbirths. Catherine's history is a pretty sure testament, given one of her children was born when she was in her early forties.

Anna Jagiellonian could marry Henry II of France instead of Catherine of Medici..

The Piasts were opposite of the Jagiellonians, they were very fertile that they lost Poland...
 
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Anna Jagiellonian could marry Henry II of France instead of Catherine of Medici..

I believe she was an intended bride for the Duke of Orléans at some point when the Franco-Polish treaty was signed in 1524. It stipulated that the Duke would marry one of Sigismund's daughters while Sigismund II Augustus would marry one of François Ier's daughters, but the treaty unfortunately came to naught. The King of Poland was also supposed to aid the French in their claims to Milan; the treaty mostly fell apart because of Pavia, and Francis later turning to Hungary.
 
I believe she was an intended bride for the Duke of Orléans at some point when the Franco-Polish treaty was signed in 1524. It stipulated that the Duke would marry one of Sigismund's daughters while Sigismund II Augustus would marry one of François Ier's daughters, but the treaty unfortunately came to naught. The King of Poland was also supposed to aid the French in their claims to Milan; the treaty mostly fell apart because of Pavia, and Francis later turning to Hungary.

That would've definitely been interesting: but how did Bona Sforza feel about this? Since the French claim to Milan rested on their regarding of the Sforzas as illegitimate rulers?

As to Catherine, is it possible that she and Anna end up in a double Swedish match? Gustaf I originally proposed to one of Sigismund's daughters (AFAIK Hedwig or Catherine), so say he's successful and he marries Anna and Erik/Johan marries Catherine. Could such a thing happen?

Also, what about a marriage with France's Italian proxies? Johan III offered his sister OTL (in lieu of his daughters being of age) to the duke of Ferrara, the hereditary prince of Tuscany and another Italian prince, would it be likely that due to France perhaps ending up short-handed on princes that they advocate such a possibility? Although one DOES wonder if Marguerite de Valois would've done better by Sigismund II than any of his OTL 3 wives - after all, she was almost forty when she had her first/only kid, imagine what she might've been able to do with more time.
 
That would've definitely been interesting: but how did Bona Sforza feel about this? Since the French claim to Milan rested on their regarding of the Sforzas as illegitimate rulers?

As to Catherine, is it possible that she and Anna end up in a double Swedish match? Gustaf I originally proposed to one of Sigismund's daughters (AFAIK Hedwig or Catherine), so say he's successful and he marries Anna and Erik/Johan marries Catherine. Could such a thing happen?

Also, what about a marriage with France's Italian proxies? Johan III offered his sister OTL (in lieu of his daughters being of age) to the duke of Ferrara, the hereditary prince of Tuscany and another Italian prince, would it be likely that due to France perhaps ending up short-handed on princes that they advocate such a possibility? Although one DOES wonder if Marguerite de Valois would've done better by Sigismund II than any of his OTL 3 wives - after all, she was almost forty when she had her first/only kid, imagine what she might've been able to do with more time.

Bona was always a supporter of the French alliance as she was quite distrustful of the Habsburgs (which definitely proved true later in life, considering Philip II had her poisoned to avoid repaying his debts to her). I'm not sure how much she really cared about Milan; she never held it herself, and most of her fortune came through her Neopolitan mother who brought her the Duchy of Bari and the Principality of Rosanno, not to mention the Brienne claim to the Kingdom of Jerusalem.

I think Anna could end up married, it's just a testament she didn't end up married because she was one of the older daughters so when marriages were brought up, Catherine was always the biggest suggestion because she was younger. I know that Gustav I wanted a Polish wife, but Sigismund I was wary of the match because of the reformation going on in Sweden at time.

Sometimes France used the Italian princes, but it was typically scions of these houses that had domiciled in France, such as the Dukes of Nevers, who belonged to the House of Gonzaga that had ruled in Mantua, Nemours, which was held by both the de Medici for a short period (1516-1524) and later the House of Savoy. François also had many other relatives amongst the high nobility of France that might be used as suitable marriage material, considering his later use of Marie de Guise to James V amongst other martimonial plans.
 
Bona was always a supporter of the French alliance as she was quite distrustful of the Habsburgs (which definitely proved true later in life, considering Philip II had her poisoned to avoid repaying his debts to her). I'm not sure how much she really cared about Milan; she never held it herself, and most of her fortune came through her Neopolitan mother who brought her the Duchy of Bari and the Principality of Rosanno, not to mention the Brienne claim to the Kingdom of Jerusalem.

I think Anna could end up married, it's just a testament she didn't end up married because she was one of the older daughters so when marriages were brought up, Catherine was always the biggest suggestion because she was younger. I know that Gustav I wanted a Polish wife, but Sigismund I was wary of the match because of the reformation going on in Sweden at time.

Sometimes France used the Italian princes, but it was typically scions of these houses that had domiciled in France, such as the Dukes of Nevers, who belonged to the House of Gonzaga that had ruled in Mantua, Nemours, which was held by both the de Medici for a short period (1516-1524) and later the House of Savoy. François also had many other relatives amongst the high nobility of France that might be used as suitable marriage material, considering his later use of Marie de Guise to James V amongst other martimonial plans.

Could François offer the duc d'Angoulême as a possible candidate - or was he too interested in trying to snare Elizabeth Tudor for him? After all, Angoulême married subverts Charles V's marriage offers, ensures an alliance for France AGAINST the HRE, and carries the possibility of children. All one really has to do is give Angoulême a few more (working) braincells.
 
Could François offer the duc d'Angoulême as a possible candidate - or was he too interested in trying to snare Elizabeth Tudor for him? After all, Angoulême married subverts Charles V's marriage offers, ensures an alliance for France AGAINST the HRE, and carries the possibility of children. All one really has to do is give Angoulême a few more (working) braincells.

I don't see why not: you just have to make the marriage treaty useful enough for his father. After all, Angoulême would be forced to follow the wishes of his father in the end, no matter his own ambitions and arguments with his brother. I know the Dauphin at the time would probably support a Polish match to neutralize brother as he definitely saw that what was being offered by Charles V (either the Netherlands or Milan) as his rightful inheritance; he also didn't appreciate the idea of his brother being raised to the status of a sovereign ruler and powerful enough to threaten him much like Burgundy had in the century prior.

Of course, François Ier was not the biggest fan of the future Henri II and Angoulême was his favorite son, so a Polish match does seem like scraps in comparison to anything the Emperor can offer. If they stay at war long enough, and maybe toss in some chaos into the House of Jagiellon (maybe Sigismund II Augustus predeceases his father?) where the match sees some positive benefit with Angoulême having the potential of possibly being elected King of Poland? The Sejm would most certainly insist on a marriage to one of the princesses at any rate; they insisted upon it when Anna was long past childbearing age when Anjou was elected. Catherine de Medicis sent her less than illustrious son to the Poles, why can't François Ier dream of the possibility two generations earlier?
 
Say Angoulême manages to have at least one kid with Anna (and this kid is Jagiellon smart, rather than taking after his dad in that department), if Sig.II still dies on schedule and childless, would the Sejm be more inclined to elect this son (say the marriage happens in c.1545, he's born c.'46/47, Angoulême dies roughly on schedule) than another candidate (i.e. Hapsburg (descent from Wladyslaw of Hungary), Hohenzollern (descent from Sig.I's eldest daughter Jadwiga), or Vasa (descended from Katarzyna)) or does it turn into a bowl of spaghetti like OTL (Valois vs Hapsburg vs Vasa vs Poland)
 

LordKalvert

Banned
Why not a marriage with Ivan the Terrible? The Jagiellio dynasty often intermarried with Russian princes and the Russians certainly sought one

Despite the Catholic overlay to the country, the heart, especially Lithuania, was Orthodox
 
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