Is is possible for Medieval Christian Europe to discover and sustain contact with the New World?
And it needs to be something not more easily obtained at home, or something that would take actual looking - like gold - to find (that may be a reason AFTER Europeans make the crossing to make more, but they won't cross in search of something they have no reason to expect will be there).
Maybe make a sugarcane species native to the Americas? If any of the local people's have figured out refining it, then the early explorers can trade for initially rather than having to transplant it.
Bam huge incentive.
Original incentive could be anything. After all, Colombus was a crank who operated from a totally wrong set of beliefs. He just had that mix of drive and geographical ineptitude. If you don't have people looking for Avalon, Prester John, Ys, or similar, a ship blown off course which manages to return leads to a story that grows in the telling.
How about instead of assuming that medieval Europeans were morons who had money they wanted to get rid of we look at the actual reason why people tried it OTL?
And a ship blown off course with nothing but sailor's tales isn't really going to inspire a lot.
Especially when it's very unlikely to make it all the way to the Americas (it's one thing rounding the bulge of Africa, but that's sometime off from OTL voyages in its own right).
Because they were morons who had money they wanted to get rid of? Thats actually a suitable description of Colombus, after he finally got his funding. He was trying to find India, and never accepted that he didn't find it. Despite his contemporaries having a fairly good idea of the distance he'd have to go. He was looking for spices, which he didn't find in the Americas.
OTL, the Americas were discovered trough total error. Thats why people tried it.
The Northwest Passage is another example of trying to find a shortcut, not random sailing for the lulz. As for the Eldorado, Atlantis, Shangri-La, Agartha and Troy: What governments spent money on those things and when?Because no-one has gone off looking for Eldorado, Atlantis, Shangri-La, the Northwest Passage, Agartha or Troy?
Blown that far off course and surviving to come back?And through history, only a couple of ships have ever been blown of course?
Shape up? Very funny.Elfwine, you need to shape up.
You don't score points by jumping into threads with "nothing would change" or poorly reasoned rationales for why someones idea for a POD is unworkable. And that basically seems to be your reason for being on this forum. If you don't think an idea works in its present form, suggest a way you think it will work.
OTL, the Americas were discovered by looking for a shorter route to somewhere people knew existed. They weren't just randomly sailing about.
But hey, let's dismiss that because presenting Columbus as a moron avoids thinking about why anyone would want to listen to him and fund him
The Northwest Passage is another example of trying to find a shortcut, not random sailing for the lulz. As for the Eldorado, Atlantis, Shangri-La, Agartha and Troy: What governments spent money on those things and when?
Blown that far off course and surviving to come back?
I'm not trying to "score points", and my reason for being on this forum is being interested in plausible alternate history.
Not in suggesting that medieval Europeans would just randomly sail off into the blue based on myths and legends nevermind that there's no reason to.
As for ideas not working: I don't think there's a reason for them to do it on purpose. Columbus got lucky in pursuit of something else, the Portuguese seem to have had much the same thing - but the latter requires speeding up the pace of the voyages down the coast of Africa and the former is chancy when the existing routes work fine.
Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? No. And unlikely, human-directed events (such as Edward II going on crusade, or a 13th century discovery of the New World) need some motive behind them.
Thats actually what happened in OTL though. Also, don't underestimate that people in the ancient world was just as prone to error as we are today, or acting on assumption-sets that seem alien today.
The obvious something is land, especially if you are a younger son. If you want a good cast of characters and a possible link have a good sales job from Greenland resulting in the sons of Tancred D'Hauteville going west not south.
Though tbh I expect it requires better ships to make the journey attractive to anyone capable of exploiting the situation, but with the need the shipping will follow.
First off, places people knew existed at the time included entirely imaginary places like Prester Johns kingdom. Thats part of the point, their list of places that they knew existed was not as firm as ours. Second, it was well known that the distance was much bigger than Colombus believed. His actions can quite accuratly be described as moronic.
And it would hardly be the first time rulers were taken in by a charismatic, but wildly incorrect presentation.
We don't need governments to fund an initial contact. That wasn't the case with the Basques or the Vikings. The question was why first contact could happen. It need not initially be government-sponsored.
Yes. First off, that is how the Vikings discovered North America. Second, once you go back a bit in time, navigation skills become poor. When blown out of sight of land, it was quite possible to get very, very lost. Third, a storm can damage a wooden ship to the point where beating against the wind is impossible, or steering very restricted. Fourth, when you get back to medieval times, ships ability to beat against the wind was very limited out of the box. Once you get into the northeasterly trade winds, your ability to go back could be very poor.
Now, this is not a high-probability scenario, but once you start looking at how many ships were potential candidates over time, the cumulative odds of such a low-probablity event happening seems acceptable.
I am not the first to point out that the manner in which you go about that is unduly negative.
Thats actually what happened in OTL though. Also, don't underestimate that people in the ancient world was just as prone to error as we are today, or acting on assumption-sets that seem alien today.
Colombus had a reason to do it on purpose, it was just a very wrong one. Presumably the Basques had a reason. The Vikings was blown off course, the Porugese were looking for something else, and intermittent trade with gold-rich Mali could lure ships down the dangerous coast of Africa. Added benefit of making the Canaries more useful as a base.
It happened to Colombus, the Portugese, and the Basques. As well as the Vikings. The fact that it happened that many times in a short timespan, indicate that it was likly. At this time. Shiptech had developed and the Europeans had started to look outwards. But the fact that we had that many independent contacts at this time, means that the odds had been rising for centuries. And that the Americas were probably on overtime.
I am not sure what you are objecting to here. That people in ancient times had a shakier idea about geography than we do? That they also made errors, or acted on reasons of religon that seems counterintuitive today? That rulers were occasionally taken in by conmen or charismatic nutters? Or that navigation and manuverability of ships were poor by todays standards?