Earlier end to serfs in Tsarist Russia causing mass migration to America in the 1850s-1890s

How could this shape American history with mass migration from the Irish as well. My theory is that the Russians instead of coming through New York like the Irish do theres a route the Russians use coming into the port of New Orleans. Just like the Union Army with the Irish The Confederates have the Russians sign up for the CSA Army at the port. The large population allows for the Civil war to last longer than it does in this time line. Ideas suggestions?
 
How could this shape American history with mass migration from the Irish as well. My theory is that the Russians instead of coming through New York like the Irish do theres a route the Russians use coming into the port of New Orleans. Just like the Union Army with the Irish The Confederates have the Russians sign up for the CSA Army at the port. The large population allows for the Civil war to last longer than it does in this time line. Ideas suggestions?

Why?
 

RousseauX

Donor
How could this shape American history with mass migration from the Irish as well. My theory is that the Russians instead of coming through New York like the Irish do theres a route the Russians use coming into the port of New Orleans. Just like the Union Army with the Irish The Confederates have the Russians sign up for the CSA Army at the port. The large population allows for the Civil war to last longer than it does in this time line. Ideas suggestions?
The southern states were not very attractive to immigrants, less factories means less work, also immigrants had to compete with slaves for low-skilled labor in agricultural sector
 
The southern states were not very attractive to immigrants, less factories means less work, also immigrants had to compete with slaves for low-skilled labor in agricultural sector

I know that the South wasn't welcoming to immigrants but New Orleans had more factories than other cities in the South which isn't saying much but that could be enough to bring in enough Russian immigrants to shape New Orleans culture.
 
Also its important to remember that the small numbers of russian immigrants don't have to be significant at the beginning, immigration increases over time, and by the 1890s and on the South had some industrial power, but again that isn't saying a lot considering most cities did.
 
And its important to note that the Southern rail lines were destroyed what if the Russian immigrants help built them.
 

RousseauX

Donor
Also its important to remember that the small numbers of russian immigrants don't have to be significant at the beginning, immigration increases over time, and by the 1890s and on the South had some industrial power, but again that isn't saying a lot considering most cities did.
yeah if you are talking about the 1890s that's pretty different than the 1860s
 
I kinda want to interrogate the serfdom more, why did it end early? I mean IRL the Tsar had to fight to get rid of it. Similarly, why are they moving? IRL they mainly wanted land inside Russia. This would suggest them moving West and Homesteading rather than the south or even north.
 
My theory is that the Russians instead of coming through New York like the Irish do theres a route the Russians use coming into the port of New Orleans.
Could you elaborate on why, as everybody else from Europe also mainly came through New York and going straight to New Orleans from
St. Petersburg and Königsberg (or wherever they would embark from) seems an unnecessarily long journey?

Edited to add:
Also its important to remember that the small numbers of russian immigrants don't have to be significant at the beginning
If they are going to be enough Russians to draft fresh off the boat and prolong the civil war it would
have to be pretty significant.
 
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I kinda want to interrogate the serfdom more, why did it end early? I mean IRL the Tsar had to fight to get rid of it. Similarly, why are they moving? IRL they mainly wanted land inside Russia. This would suggest them moving West and Homesteading rather than the south or even north.

This is the fundamental problem. Russia is huge and the ex-serfs can probably get land in it. They don't have a need to move to an alien society to do that.

Also, a big reason why New York was the immigrant gateway was that it is one of the closest cities to Europe. Immigrants spent weeks on those ships in uncomfortable conditions and couldn't wait to get off. Disembarking at New Orleans means a lot more time on the ship.
 
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While there was lots of land available inside Russia in the OTL 19th century most of that empty land was in Siberia and the North Caucasus, if you take those away from Russia then the excess peasants of "Old Muscovy" have no where to go. Maybe have more powerful Chinese and Ottoman Empires.
 
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While there was lots of land available inside Russia in the OTL 19th century most of that empty land was in Siberia and the North Caucasus, if you take those away from Russia then the excess peasants of "Old Muscovy" have no where to go. Maybe have more powerful Chinese and Ottoman Empires.
Well, we'd need a quite early PoD to block off Russia from the Caucasus and Siberia, which could butterfly away the existence of the United States.
 
I kinda want to interrogate the serfdom more, why did it end early? I mean IRL the Tsar had to fight to get rid of it. Similarly, why are they moving? IRL they mainly wanted land inside Russia. This would suggest them moving West and Homesteading rather than the south or even north.
For example November Uprising is much more radical and emancipates serfs in the Congress Kingdom. Russia, to limit its popularity in Lithuanian governorates does the same in this area before the Poles can offer it so it is the tsar who can pose as liberator, not the rebels (as bonus it denies various Polish lords their incomes). It later spreads to other provinces.
 
While there was lots of land available inside Russia in the OTL 19th century most of that empty land was in Siberia and the North Caucasus, if you take those away from Russia then the excess peasants of "Old Muscovy" have no where to go. Maybe have more powerful Chinese and Ottoman Empires.

The European part of Russia, alone, is giant. Russia needs to be much smaller before it runs out of available land.
 
The European part of Russia, alone, is giant. Russia needs to be much smaller before it runs out of available land.

It's giant but climate is poor keeping density down so there isn't much free farmland. Old Muscovy was as densely farmed as it could be by the 19th century and former Wild Lands of Ukraine which the Tartars had kept empty had also filled up rapidly after it's conquest. Central Asia was too dry, that left the North Caucasus where war and expulsions freed up land and Siberia and the Far East where the frontier of settlement was pushed forward.
 

RousseauX

Donor
While there was lots of land available inside Russia in the OTL 19th century most of that empty land was in Siberia and the North Caucasus, if you take those away from Russia then the excess peasants of "Old Muscovy" have no where to go. Maybe have more powerful Chinese and Ottoman Empires.
tbf plenty of Russians -did- immigrate to america despite plentiful land in russia even before 1914
 
Emmigrants from Russian Empire were mostly Jews, escaping antisemitism, not lack of farmland. Before ww1 Russia was destination of immigrants, many Germans were immigrating to Russia.
 
I kinda want to interrogate the serfdom more, why did it end early? I mean IRL the Tsar had to fight to get rid of it. Similarly, why are they moving? IRL they mainly wanted land inside Russia. This would suggest them moving West and Homesteading rather than the south or even north.

It ended because in this time line there is more famine resulting in uprisings by the Serfs. As a result the Tsar lifted some laws making life for the serfs slightly more bearable.
 
An extra few thousand immigrants, at best, in the South isn't going to do squat for the CSA.

After the Civil War they still will mostly go elsewhere than the South and probably won't make much of a difference in the end.

I know that the South wasn't welcoming to immigrants but New Orleans had more factories than other cities in the South which isn't saying much but that could be enough to bring in enough Russian immigrants to shape New Orleans culture.

That's why New Orleans already had a ton of immigrants and already was a center of immigration. But New Orleans is just one city, and the vast majority of Russians are going to go elsewhere.
 
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