Earlier Chinese Timelines?

I'm interested in reading some AH that is focused on China. Regrettably, all of the timelines on the wiki , while great, focus on 20th century and modern China.

Are there any good/great timelines with a focus on pre-modern or early modern China?

Thanks for the recommendations! :)

Cheers,
Ganesha
 
I'm interested in reading some AH that is focused on China. Regrettably, all of the timelines on the wiki , while great, focus on 20th century and modern China.

Are there any good/great timelines with a focus on pre-modern or early modern China?

Thanks for the recommendations! :)

Cheers,
Ganesha
well, you could start with democracy101's A Light in the East. It's supposedly a Korean TL but encompasses much of history in Northern China from the 4th century. It's a great read since democracy101 employs much of ancient Chinese history.
That's all I can help.
 
Thanks for the recommendations, guys! I'll start reading them. Any other suggestions?

Cheers,
Ganesha
 
well, you could start with democracy101's A Light in the East. It's supposedly a Korean TL but encompasses much of history in Northern China from the 4th century. It's a great read since democracy101 employs much of ancient Chinese history.
That's all I can help.

Thanks for mentioning my TL.

Thanks for the recommendations, guys! I'll start reading them. Any other suggestions?

Cheers,
Ganesha

I don't have any apart from the ones mentioned, but I will say that it's extremely difficult to write a timeline concerning China, let alone East Asia, due to the fact that the complex tributary systems in place before 1000 severely complicated geopolitics, not to mention the situation before the Qin. For example, China remained fragmented among numerous entities from 304-429, of which none lasted for more than several decades, while several northern and southern entities succeeded each other from around 420-589. Various states were also active within Central and Northeast Asia, of which some actively expanded into Chinese territory and threatened to upset China's general status.

The general situation gradually became more simplified over time, especially after 1279, when the Song was extinguished by the Yuan, but internal politics also became more complicated as the government eventually started to loosen control over various far-flung regions, in part due to sporadic disorder within specific areas, not to mention occasional political infighting. In addition, the fact that China essentially retained a cultural and political hegemony over East Asia for more than two millennia, although with significant breaks in between, also means that it's generally difficult to further improve China's situation, as members are generally fond of doing so for other countries.

In other words, the background can often take months to flesh out, not to mention the events after the PoD, which generally tends to be tedious for both writers and readers.
 
I've got a couple rough ideas that I probably won't get to, if that helps (from list in sig):

Land of Chu
Jin Ke successfully kills the King of Qin, not only delaying the unification of All Under Heaven, but completely changing the philosophy and manner in which it is first bound together.

Second Age of Han
The wind doesn't change at the Battle of Red Cliffs, leading Cao Cao's forces to emerge victorious; China is reunified under the puppet Han emperor (whom Cao doesn't kill), and the Han dynasty ends up lasting several more centuries. One butterfly being that Buddhism does less well in China -- and so, in the 8th Century, when invading muslim armies appear in the west...

The Land of Qilin
Zhu Gaoxu prevails in becoming Ming Emperor in 1424; one key result is that China does not pursue isolationist policies -- continuing Zheng He expeditions, encouraging Indian Ocean trade, etc -- and eventually come to establish a presence on the southern tip of Africa, before the Portuguese can. With an assertive China standing in their way, Portugal does not come to have any kind of "empire" east of Africa, and the course of the Age of Exploration and subsequent global balance of power is entirely altered.

The Red Pill Not Taken
The 1620's go much better for the Ming than OTL -- the Tiaping Emperor doesn't die in 1620 (by not taking the infamous Red Pills), and the Wanggong Factory Disaster doesn't happen in 1626, meaning the Manchus are contained earlier, and the state is in a better position to handle the crop crisis. As a result, the Ming survive into the 18th Century, heading a stronger China, and creating a very different century...

Dragons and Poppies
A delay in deregulating the opium trade leads to Britain reaching a diplomatic accommodation with Qing China (allowing licensed merchants to sell the drug in the cities but forbidding its spread into the countryside). TTL sees a later and less decisive Sino-Anglo War; the modernizing reign of Yixin (Prince Gong) for the latter half of the 19th Century; a more humiliated Russia following the Crimea War (w loss of influence in Manchuria and Korea); and more.

A Shift in Loyalty
Yuan Shikai backs the Emperor and the reformers during the turbulent events of 1898. Though this, combined with her death, dooms Cixi's reactionary faction, it far from guarantees the survival of the Qing Regime -- only that the revolution will come earlier, and be very different from OTL.
 
The problem with Second age of the Han, is that Cao Cao didn't kill the emperor, like the King of Zhou he didn't intend to usurp the throne but leave that to his heir Cao Pei. Secondly Cao Pei only deposed the emperor, finally It would technically be a continuation of the 2nd age of the Han or 3rd.
 

RousseauX

Donor
I'm interested in reading some AH that is focused on China. Regrettably, all of the timelines on the wiki , while great, focus on 20th century and modern China.

Are there any good/great timelines with a focus on pre-modern or early modern China?

Thanks for the recommendations! :)

Cheers,
Ganesha
All About my Brother: a TL on a successful taiping rebellion is one of the best TLs on this board
 
All About my Brother: a TL on a successful taiping rebellion is one of the best TLs on this board

Who's it by? Link?

Thanks for the recommendations -

and to democracy101 for the explanation of why it's so hard. But don't the same limitations apply to say, the HRE or France before Colbert's reforms?

Cheers,
Ganesha
 
Who's it by? Link?

Thanks for the recommendations -

and to democracy101 for the explanation of why it's so hard. But don't the same limitations apply to say, the HRE or France before Colbert's reforms?

Cheers,
Ganesha
Thread here.

I don't think Chinese history is particularly hard. There's only a few countries to discuss for most of the time, almost all of the written sources are in one language, there is a literate culture present, and the religion, government, and culture show strong strains of continuity. It's not like China's whole history must be explained in order to create an alternate timeline of Chinese history.
 
Thanks for the recommendations -

and to democracy101 for the explanation of why it's so hard. But don't the same limitations apply to say, the HRE or France before Colbert's reforms?

Cheers,
Ganesha

No problem.

Well, this forum is Western-oriented, so the vast majority of members are going to write about events concerning the US and/or Europe. Generally speaking, you don't see timelines before 1900 on this forum about South America, Africa, or Asia (such as Southeast Asia), with a few noteworthy exceptions, despite the fact that members can theoretically create interesting timelines involving at least one continent if they have enough time and resources. In addition, someone who has a deep knowledge of European politics during the Middle Ages, for example, will have to essentially relearn the situation within East Asia for at least several months, which can be exhausting for most people.

If someone wants to write about a timeline specifically focusing region/country outside of North America and Europe, they also may have to rely on non-English sources, making it even more difficult for the vast majority of members on this forum to access them, and attempt to analyze them before even beginning to tackle events in an ATL.
 
Thread here.

I don't think Chinese history is particularly hard. There's only a few countries to discuss for most of the time, almost all of the written sources are in one language, there is a literate culture present, and the religion, government, and culture show strong strains of continuity. It's not like China's whole history must be explained in order to create an alternate timeline of Chinese history.

Yes, but those who are more versed in European history, for example, tend to map similar concepts to China as well, which can lead to strange results.
 
Thread here.

I don't think Chinese history is particularly hard. There's only a few countries to discuss for most of the time, almost all of the written sources are in one language, there is a literate culture present, and the religion, government, and culture show strong strains of continuity. It's not like China's whole history must be explained in order to create an alternate timeline of Chinese history.

Thanks. It's very well-written indeed. :)

Cheers,
Ganesha
 
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