True enough. That suggests that something stopping something like the OTL Qing would do the trick, but it wouldn't require this kind of division.
Again, a general balance of power occurred for most of East Asia's history, as I stated earlier, with only brief exceptions during the Yuan and Qing. However, the situation was not comparable to that of Europe, and the Qing's dominance later allowed the ROC and PRC to take over most of its former possessions.
Yes, but the court still remained divided on exactly how to handle formal relations even after the initial surrender in 1259, and the situation was not definitively resolved until 1273. The military continued to maintain an aggressive stance, as it had retained power for a century, and even forced the ruler to briefly step down in 1269, suggesting that the government was extremely divided at the time. Kublai would also almost certainly not attempt to hand Liaodong over to Goryeo, as the latter would be essentially at Dadu's doorstep if the land transfer occurred. Considering how it took 20 years of repeated requests from Goryeo for the Yuan to finally return the former's northwestern territory south of the Yalu River, I honestly don't see why or how the Khan will attempt to give Goryeo territory north of the river, regardless of the situation involved.
True enough. That suggests that something stopping something like the OTL Qing would do the trick, but it wouldn't require this kind of division.
There won't Qing. There will be at best some Manchu Kingdom or they will either assimlated by Korea or will be under Mongolian domination. But with Balance of Power game Mongolia and Korea both will prefer weak and neutral Manchu.
In this ATL Mongolian surely will be Muslim country:
1. Until 16th century Buddism doesn't dominate Mongolia.
2. Given Mongolia should absorb all the remnants of Golden Horde and Chagataid Khanate it will give very big mass of Muslim when Mongolia was ready for new religion other than paganism.
So it will give them impulse and legitimacy for Central Asian tribes.
And heck
That really doesn't change that they would be ruling over Turkic nations who would likely be hostile to mongolian rule.
And on central asia: really there are people to dominate the land, people like Timur and his ilk of turkic warlords could throw off Mongolian rule and rule themselves and even without them in the long term Iran stands a good chance of contesting mongol rule of central asia, especially with groups like the Tajiks who have signifigantly more cultural ties to Iran than to the Mongols.
But you also need no one else doing what they managed. And I'm not sure that Mongolia is in a position to stop that - as someone else said, that is a rickety state.
Manchu's can't be such a strong when there was Mongolia and Korea.
Jurchens (Manchu's) become dominant power around 1000 when Korean's was driven out from Manchuria. before that MOngolia and Korea very well managed Manchu's, Kidan's and all other tribes on the Manchuria.
And this is with a POD considerably after AD 1000.
Yes, and Korean and Mongolians will be play same game through whole history and make sure that Manchu's never got strong as OTL...
That's going to be easier said than done.
I don't think it's impossible to keep the Manchus from being as strong as OTL, but I think these divisions are unlikely to work - or last.
I don't think Goryeo will not follow this scenario (my TL) because best scenario around 1264 is Kubilai asking assistance from them and in return give Liaodong.
1. Bureaucrats wanted peace, heck they even submitted too Mongolia in 1259. So this is gift from Heaven.
2. For Military Government it is best they hope. You will raise your status by helping Kubilai and If they can gain Liaodong they can legitimate their control, hence support of population. At worst they will have more time to sort out their internal matter, and with the Kubilai money they could fix their military.
As for Kubilai it is not make sense. But you can argue that, he wasn't serious about his promise (it is not uncommon among nomadic tribes). He wanted to deal with Ariq Boke, then after that he can invade Goryeo anyway. So it is not impossible.
And after Ariq Boke and Kubilai stalemate (under pressure of Royal Family Princes and Mongolian Nobles), Kubilai will be very interested to give Liaodong to Goryeo (now most certainly tribute state) rather than give it to Ariq Boke.
What wonders me is, how Gorey will capitalize this new base. They sure will be busy for several century to assimilate Liaodong rather than project power unless it threatens your national interest. If Japanese conquest of Korean Peninsula occurs as OTL, Korea will be introvert well untill when some of colonial power open them. After that everything will be really tricky.
There's a very good reason why out of all of the states that surrendered within Eurasia, the Mongols decided to only let Goryeo retain its existence, and Kublai would not attempt to make such a suicidal move in order to break the fragile balance.
Did you mean "conquered"? I'm pretty sure many of the Rus princes (or maybe it was just Alexander Nevsky) surrendered and paid tribute to the Mongols, which is why the Golden Horde never annexed all of the Rus principalities.
Also, a quick search on Wikipedia shows that the Kingdom of Georgia, though divided in two, was never annexed into the Golden Horde Khanate nor the Il-Khanate, so it seems that there is at least one other state that surrendered to the Mongols and retained its existence. However, Georgian history is, to me, an incredibly obscure areas of history, so I will say nothing with certainty.
If Japanese conquest of Korean Peninsula occurs as OTL, Korea will be introvert well untill when some of colonial power open them. After that everything will be really tricky.
Manchu has nothing especial, they was just a bunch of tribes which was on the remote part of North East Asia. They got strong When a lot of Mongolian men served in their army. When they first attacked Ming Dynasty most of troops where Mongolians. So without Mongolian troops Manchurian can't become so strong.
Why are you thinking this Division can't work?
Korea was never really conquered, though, as the court nominally surrendered in 1259, although the military continued to resist until 1273. After a glance at Wikipedia, it looks like the Rus eventually splintered into various polities instead of remaining intact, while some maps suggest that all of Georgia had been incorporated into the Mongol Empire or its successor khanates. On the other hand, this map suggests that while a rump state remained, the capital and a large majority of the state remained under Mongol control. There might be other exceptions in Southeast Asia as well, but Burma's capital was sacked, and the state came to an end soon after, causing political fragmentation, invasions into Java failed, while Vietnam and Champa decided to send tribute after three campaigns. Regardless, Goryeo held out the longest against the Mongols, despite the fact that it was the closest state to the Mongols' core territory which managed to retain independence, and remained intact after the Yuan's fall.
Yeah, so a country is generally considered to be conquered after it surrenders. Any other definition would be pointless. After all, you can say that Song China wasn't really conquered: the imperial government surrendered in 1276 before the last remnants were defeated in 1279. Or, for a more modern example, France in 1940 wasn't conquered by Germany either: the civilian government of Petain was the entity which sought the armistice. Same for Japan in 1945: it was a civilian, the Emperor, who overruled a military that wanted to continue fighting.
I really won't speak about Georgian history, but my point is that Koryo wasn't exceptional in retaining its existence despite surrendering. The Rus states were already splintered even before the Mongols came (I think there was a nominal unity under one of the rulers, but functionally they were separate), and even after the Mongols invaded, they still continued to exist.
Also, even though Vietnam and Champa paid tribute to the Mongol Yuan Dynasty, they were essentially independent, unlike Koryo, whose rulers could be deposed at will by the Yuan Emperors. I don't even think the Mongols even reached Champa. Like Novgorod and some of the Rus states, it paid tribute as an insurance measure against war, not because it had to.
Why you think Turkic are hostile to Mongolians. During whole history steps of Caspian to Korea was either dominated by Mongolian or Turkic tribes and there wasn't much hostile each other.
And those Uzbekstan, Tajikstan and Turkmenstan are not Turkic tribes. Those are very well established sedentary nations with gene of everything from Greek, Roman to Persia, Arabia and Mongolia.
I think that it is very easy for several Turkic chieftans to rise up against the Mongols, and it was never really dominated by one or the other, more often than not Central Asia was dominated by its own hegemons and Mongolia by its own hegemons, there may have been contact but very few people ruled all of it. Even Timur (the most successful warlord after Genghis) didn't end up ruling over all of that region. More often then not Central Asia was in the Persian sphere of politics whereas in OTL the Mongolia-Manchu-Uyghur region was its own sphere more highly connected to their southern neighbors than to their western neighbors.
And on your second point, thats far too simple. there was much more of a mix of sedentary and nomadic society at the time which tended to be fairly involved with one another politically.
@democracy: what frequent mistake that make many is they don't understand the Political structure of nomads. It isn't like Korean and Chinese strong Confucian style established central government.
Mongolian Political Structure is more of federation of tribes, where chief of tribes loyal to Khan. When they conquer some country they don't stay there. They just leave some locals their representative, and leave them alone as long as they pay tribute and man power when they demand. It's the way they control its conquered land.
In this case Korea was already Mongolian subject from Mongolian point of view, but you will explain otherwise.
I won't argue with you since you won't take my point, and of course your source is mostly Korean so yeah...
thanks