DWBI: Hitler lives, and takes power instead of Strasser

Gregor Strasser was the dictator of Germany and the leader of the Nazi party along with Ernst Rohm of the SA from the depression in 1930 to the end of the 8-year Great Global War, also known as the Second World War where he an his allies fought against Britain and France and their allies around not just Europe and parts of Africa, but around the world. He advocated a form of "Far-right Socialistic Fascism" called "National Socialism", with advocated more radical, mass-action and worker-based form of Fascism.

However, he was not the founder of the Nazi Party, that was an Austrian Corporal called Adolf Hitler that served in WW1. Hitler tried to overthrow the government of Germany in the 1920s with the Munich Beer Hall Putch. However, the initial revolution failed and Hitler was hung. However, he wrote drafts for the book Mein Kampf in Death Row, which laid out his legacy for successors to follow, and was an "autobiography" of sorts. It was never completed but it included plans for Germany to rule over much of the Russian lands after a war with Russia, which was then the USSR. So the question is this: What if Hitler had gone into hiding and took power with the "Second Revolt"?

It was also implied in some sections of Mein Kampf that Hitler was an even bigger antisemite than the Nazi dogma during WWII on racial and national grounds instead of just "capitalistic" grounds. Would that have lead to a massive pogrom against the Jews had he took power?

There was a massive purge and deportation of the elite and major Industrialists under Strasser due to the Nazi opposition to capitalism, would the antisemitism of Hitler attempt to tie these industrialists with some sort of "Jewish Conspiracy"?
 
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Gregor Strasser was the dictator of Germany and the leader of the Nazi party along with Ernst Rohm of the SA from the depression to the end of the Great Global War, also known as the Second World War where he an his allies fought against Britain and France. He advocated a form of "Far-right Socialistic Fascism" called "National Socialism", with advocated more radical, mass-action and worker-based form of Fascism.

However, he was not the founder of the Nazi Party, that was an Austrian Corporal called Adolf Hitler that served in WW1. Hitler tried to overthrow the government of Germany in the 1920s with the Munich Beer Hall Putch. However, the initial revolution failed and Hitler was hung. However before he died he wrote the book Mein Kampf in Death Row, which laid out his legacy for successors to follow and included plans for Germany to rule over much of the Russian lands. So the question is this: What if Hitler had gone into hiding and took power with the "Second Revolt"?

It was also seen in Mein Kampf that Hitler was an even bigger antisemite than the Nazi dogma during WWII on racial and national grounds. Would that have lead to a massive pogrom against the Jews had he took power?

There was a massive purge and deportation of the elite and major Industrialists under Strasser due to their opposition to capitalism, would the antisemitism of Hitler attempt to tie these industrialists with some sort of "Jewish Conspiracy"?
ASB. That's all. What about making George W. Bush, the infamous serial killer President of the United States? He was once a Republican congressman for a few years, and is son of renowned Senator Bush. Stop such fantasies please.

(OOC: :D)
 
ASB. That's all. What about making George W. Bush, the infamous serial killer President of the United States? He was once a Republican congressman for a few years, and is son of renowned Senator Bush. Stop such fantasies please.

(OOC: :D)

I wouldn't call him (in)famous, considering I have never heard of him up till now.

I think it's unlikely, not ASB by any means. Germany in the 1930s was highly unstable, and any number of radical regimes could have seized power. Given some good organization a bit of luck, I think this Hitler fellow could have taken power.

This would have radically upset the balance of WWII, if what you say about his ideas is accurate. That antipathy towards the USSR likely makes it an open enemy of Germany, which basically eliminates all potential allies for Germany. Without a solid ally to his west, Stalin would have likely stayed neutral and let the Western Allies and Germany beat each other up again, and then swooped in to pick up the pieces. Another possibility is a Germany-USSR war, with the Western Allies playing the role of gleeful observers. I have no idea who wins that one; it all depends on how much Germany rearms before the war, which side Poland takes, and whether the faults in the Soviet Army which OTL went addressed until the disasters of the Turkish front go undiscovered until the war.

In secondary fronts, the Spanish Republicans likely fall without the German/Soviet aid. KMT China likely falls to Japan. They were on the ropes after the fall of Nanjing and the loss of their entire professional army, so without Zhukov's tanks saving Chiang's ass the KMT is likely forced to surrender. Italy may or may not try to invade Yugoslavia while the French and British aren't looking. I see no reason for the US to stir itself at all; OTL it took the sinking of three USN destroyers in a week by German akulas to bring them in, so who knows.

All in all, it looks to be a less widespread war than OTL's. A good thing, all around.
 
It seems that Bush Dubya's crimes actually caused a black stain upon their family, that they have kept a low profile for a long time.

Anyways I was asking this question because a controversial movie came out in December 2012 called "Rise of National Socialism" that deals with the rise of Nazi party in Germany and it's portrayal of the life of Hitler raised this question of "what if Hitler survived" in many alternate historical circles.....wheather it was ASB or not I'd say that given the radical factions around at that time it was very easy for this to happen.....

Had Hitler won power I think there would be 1) A Nazi-Soviet War that would result in USSR curbstomping Germany or Stalin, without the Strasser brothers allying with USSR they would have remained neutral.

OOC: Yes I see what you did there Tony.:D
 
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Gregor Strasser was the dictator of Germany and the leader of the Nazi party along with Ernst Rohm of the SA from the depression in 1930 to the end of the 8-year Great Global War, also known as the Second World War where he an his allies fought against Britain and France and their allies around not just Europe and parts of Africa, but around the world. He advocated a form of "Far-right Socialistic Fascism" called "National Socialism", with advocated more radical, mass-action and worker-based form of Fascism.

However, he was not the founder of the Nazi Party, that was an Austrian Corporal called Adolf Hitler that served in WW1. Hitler tried to overthrow the government of Germany in the 1920s with the Munich Beer Hall Putch. However, the initial revolution failed and Hitler was hung. However, he wrote drafts for the book Mein Kampf in Death Row, which laid out his legacy for successors to follow, and was an "autobiography" of sorts. It was never completed but it included plans for Germany to rule over much of the Russian lands after a war with Russia, which was then the USSR. So the question is this: What if Hitler had gone into hiding and took power with the "Second Revolt"?

It was also implied in some sections of Mein Kampf that Hitler was an even bigger antisemite than the Nazi dogma during WWII on racial and national grounds instead of just "capitalistic" grounds. Would that have lead to a massive pogrom against the Jews had he took power?

There was a massive purge and deportation of the elite and major Industrialists under Strasser due to the Nazi opposition to capitalism, would the antisemitism of Hitler attempt to tie these industrialists with some sort of "Jewish Conspiracy"?

Actually, the truth is, Adolf Hitler was very much pro-corporate like his idol Mussolini. He just didn't like successful Jews, that's all. Had Hitler lived, he and Strasser likely would have eventually turned on one another real harshly. (And, btw, Strasser didn't get rid of all the capitalists: just those who chose not to toe the line, such as the Warburg and Rothschild families)

Strasser's Germany was screwed up, but Adolf Hitler's rule would have been much worse. At least Strasser's guys didn't shoot up Soviet civilians when they invaded that country in the spring of '42, unlike those of Ante Pavelic.....Hitler, on the other hand, almost certainly would have.
 
Actually, the truth is, Adolf Hitler was very much pro-corporate like his idol Mussolini. He just didn't like successful Jews, that's all. Had Hitler lived, he and Strasser likely would have eventually turned on one another real harshly. (And, btw, Strasser didn't get rid of all the capitalists: just those who chose not to toe the line, such as the Warburg and Rothschild families)

Strasser's Germany was screwed up, but Adolf Hitler's rule would have been much worse. At least Strasser's guys didn't shoot up Soviet civilians when they invaded that country in the spring of '42, unlike those of Ante Pavelic.....Hitler, on the other hand, almost certainly would have.

OOC: Um..it was established that Germany allied with USSR in the Global War by imperialaquila.
 
It seems that Bush Dubya's crimes actually caused a black stain upon their family, that they have kept a low profile for a long time.

Anyways I was asking this question because a controversial movie came out in December 2012 called "Rise of National Socialism" that deals with the rise of Nazi party in Germany and it's portrayal of the life of Hitler raised this question of "what if Hitler survived" in many alternate historical circles.....wheather it was ASB or not I'd say that given the radical factions around at that time it was very easy for this to happen.....

Had Hitler won power I think there would be 1) A Nazi-Soviet War that would result in USSR curbstomping Germany or Stalin, without the Strasser brothers allying with USSR they would have remained neutral.

OOC: Yes I see what you did there Tony.:D

Oh yeah, that movie. I didn't really pay attention to that, considering how well mainstream moviemakers have dealt with alternate history. Was it actually worth watching?

I think an absolute German defeat is not as certain as you make out. The USSR did have severe structural problems with its military stemming from the Purges; it was lucky for them that these problems were revealed on relatively peripheral fronts for them, rather than in an all-out invasion of their western frontier. Against the same German army which came within two hundred yards (seriously, look up the Battle of Sedan, it's chilling how close they came to forcing the Crossing) of forcing France out of the war in a single campaign? Russia's size gives it an advantage, but I see something like the Brest-Litovsk treaty as entirely possible.
 
That movie wasn't worth watching, through it did significantly well in the Box office. They should have done a miniseries.
 
So, the LOTR route? Makes sense, you can't really cram that much history into two-odd hours without grossly oversimplifying it.

Through to be fair, the actor portraying Strasser got best actor nomination. And it wasn't alternate history, just a dramatization of events where the portrayal of Hitler raised A LOT of questions about alternate history..

Also how would have a smaller-scale war affected Mexico and South America? Would they actually stay neutral(which possibly butterflies away American involvement in the war) or would they be dragged in one way or another? Remember that Mexico fell to a armed coup sponsored by the Strasserists with some help from Communist insiders. Then they attacked the US in the early years of WW2 seeking to regain the territory it lost in 1848 and it pulled US into the war. Coup in Mexico started chain of events affecting Latin & South America to this day. And Argentina and Brazil were fighting each other which culminated in Argentina's victory and the destruction of most of Brazil's industry as "retaliation".
 
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Strasser was very good at organization and his alliance with the USSR to form the Axis came as a shock to the planet in 1941. His slow recovery first of Austria in 1934 then of the Saar in 1936 then the Sudetenland in 1939 was remarkable, never mind the negotiated return of Danzig in 1940. He played Chamberlain like a fiddle and allowed the Germans time to get major submarine initiatives and computers into the fore. With the completion of the Z3 computer, the forced collaboration of various research efforts, and the unification of their nuclear efforts, the German war effort shook half the planet. I think we all remember reading about the Chongqing massacre where the combined Sino-Japanese forces hurled themselves at a Soviet war machine that claimed China, Southeast Asia, and India for itself. German tanks managed to take the Suez Canal, Turkey, and even invade Persia before the USSR could secure it.

As was mentioned before, the Strasserist coups in Mexico and Brazil made a great mess of things, the presence of Mexican soldiers as far as Monterrey, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Santa Fe, Lubbock, and Houston shocked all of us until the Battle of San Antonio, the "Second Alamo" where no quarter was asked or given. With equal brutality in the Pampas and Chile trying to edge in on Argentina in the days when Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, and Bolivia were actually countries and not parts of the Greater Argentine Federation. At least they annexed Santa Catarina and Rio Grande do Sul instead of repeating the Rape of Sao Paolo though the violence there was only part of what was to come.

By war's end in 1949 the A9 missile system was hitting English targets within 500 meters of their proposed coordinates and prototype A10s were being prepared for launch of satellites five years ahead of when it actually happened. Z4 computers were surprisingly common along with Z11 prototypes, jet technology developed and matured into the Ta283 fighter with prototypes of the "Starfighter" system already flying! The war cost over 400 million lives worldwide, and granted much of our modern technology resulted from that or innovation made later against our "friends" in the European Union and Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere, but I do not know how the world would look today had the war ended earlier. Would Japan be the beacon of technology and progress loved by so much of Asia? Would France and Britain have fought harder early on to stop the war before it could begin?
 
Through to be fair, the actor portraying Strasser got best actor nomination. And it wasn't alternate history, just a dramatization of events where the portrayal of Hitler raised A LOT of questions about alternate history..

Also how would have a smaller-scale war affected Mexico and South America? Would they actually stay neutral(which possibly butterflies away American involvement in the war) or would they be dragged in one way or another? Remember that Mexico fell to a armed coup sponsored by the Strasserists with some help from Communist insiders. Then they attacked the US in the early years of WW2 seeking to regain the territory it lost in 1848 and it pulled US into the war. Coup in Mexico started chain of events affecting Latin & South America to this day. And Argentina and Brazil were fighting each other which culminated in Argentina's victory and the destruction of most of Brazil's industry as "retaliation".

As long as the Mexican leadership is halfway sane, the Mexicans will stay out. If the US isn't distracted by Mexico and Europe, Vargas likely stays out as well. The only reason that whole mess in South America got traction was the mishandling of the occupation of Mexico (damn you, MacArthur!). If the US is relatively undistracted by a smaller war in Europe and no Mexico, the Brazilians and Mexicans will sensibly keep their heads down and try to profit off of selling war materials. The Argentines weren't looking for a fight; without Vargas's attempt at a surprise invasion, they'll stay out and sell beef and grain to the British.
 
I think someone wrote TL on this premise called "Hitler's German Empire". It has an industrial scale genocide of the Jewish people which the guy nearly got banned for.
 
Strasser was very good at organization and his alliance with the USSR to form the Axis came as a shock to the planet in 1941. His slow recovery first of Austria in 1934 then of the Saar in 1936 then the Sudetenland in 1939 was remarkable, never mind the negotiated return of Danzig in 1940. He played Chamberlain like a fiddle and allowed the Germans time to get major submarine initiatives and computers into the fore. With the completion of the Z3 computer, the forced collaboration of various research efforts, and the unification of their nuclear efforts, the German war effort shook half the planet. I think we all remember reading about the Chongqing massacre where the combined Sino-Japanese forces hurled themselves at a Soviet war machine that claimed China, Southeast Asia, and India for itself. German tanks managed to take the Suez Canal, Turkey, and even invade Persia before the USSR could secure it.

As was mentioned before, the Strasserist coups in Mexico and Brazil made a great mess of things, the presence of Mexican soldiers as far as Monterrey, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Santa Fe, Lubbock, and Houston shocked all of us until the Battle of San Antonio, the "Second Alamo" where no quarter was asked or given. With equal brutality in the Pampas and Chile trying to edge in on Argentina in the days when Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, and Bolivia were actually countries and not parts of the Greater Argentine Federation. At least they annexed Santa Catarina and Rio Grande do Sul instead of repeating the Rape of Sao Paolo though the violence there was only part of what was to come.

By war's end in 1949 the A9 missile system was hitting English targets within 500 meters of their proposed coordinates and prototype A10s were being prepared for launch of satellites five years ahead of when it actually happened. Z4 computers were surprisingly common along with Z11 prototypes, jet technology developed and matured into the Ta283 fighter with prototypes of the "Starfighter" system already flying! The war cost over 400 million lives worldwide, and granted much of our modern technology resulted from that or innovation made later against our "friends" in the European Union and Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere, but I do not know how the world would look today had the war ended earlier. Would Japan be the beacon of technology and progress loved by so much of Asia? Would France and Britain have fought harder early on to stop the war before it could begin?

There's no need for the (revisionist) lecture.

A few things off with your...interesting perspective:

- Are you a product of the Japanese educational system? Because the few thousand Chinese collaborator auxiliaries fighting alongside a Japanese army hardly count as 'Sino-Japanese'. The Nationalist army that formed the vast bulk of the attackers at Chongqing would beg to differ.

- Kashmir =/= India.

- If by Mexican troops, you mean the few hundred plainclothes agents the Falange distributed across the Southwest, than yes, that's right. You are horrifically exaggerating the events at Houston; while certain Mexican politicians might compare it to the Alamo, a few dozen Mexican agents in a shootout with the National Guard is hardly the stuff of legends.

- To be completely fair to the Argentinians, the Brazilians did do the same to Buenos Aires before the US-led counterattack. They were hardly the only member of the Allies to commit war crimes; your beloved Japanese did much worse to the Chinese before the European side of WWII, a fact that is unfortunately glossed over in the Western world.

- Yes, I am certain you are Japanese. Beloved by most of Asia? The Chinese would beg to differ, for one. Japan is nice enough now (if you're Japanese), but it has a lot of dirty laundry in its past that it's mostly gotten a free pass on from the developed world for being on the right side during WWII.
 
Actually, the truth is, Adolf Hitler was very much pro-corporate like his idol Mussolini. He just didn't like successful Jews, that's all. Had Hitler lived, he and Strasser likely would have eventually turned on one another real harshly. (And, btw, Strasser didn't get rid of all the capitalists: just those who chose not to toe the line, such as the Warburg and Rothschild families)

Strasser's Germany was screwed up, but Adolf Hitler's rule would have been much worse. At least Strasser's guys didn't shoot up Soviet civilians when they invaded that country in the spring of '42, unlike those of Ante Pavelic.....Hitler, on the other hand, almost certainly would have.
Its widely acknowledged that Mein Kampf was a fraud by opponents of the Nazi party on the level of Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Hitlers unpublished autobiography was actually given the tentative title of Das Kampf.

Mein Kampf on the other hand, was basically a work of propaganda that went out of its way to be as outrageous as possible and embarrass the Nazi party. It had little baring to Adolf Hitler himself, except for being a forgery designed to appear as if he had penned it.

Ironically enough it was the USA that seemed to have taken the contents as fact, leading to a massive backlash against Jews in America, and throughout America's campaigns in general.

On the other hand, it did lead to America giving the Jews their own nation in Alaska so, alls well that ends well?
 
Its widely acknowledged that Mein Kampf was a fraud by opponents of the Nazi party on the level of Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Hitlers unpublished autobiography was actually given the tentative title of Das Kampf.

Mein Kampf on the other hand, was basically a work of propaganda that went out of its way to be as outrageous as possible and embarrass the Nazi party. It had little baring to Adolf Hitler himself, except for being a forgery designed to appear as if he had penned it.

Ironically enough it was the USA that seemed to have taken the contents as fact, leading to a massive backlash against Jews in America, and throughout America's campaigns in general.

On the other hand, it did lead to America giving the Jews their own nation in Alaska so, alls well that ends well?

Well...since the Holy Land got nuked during the Global War, I would say so....

And greatly acknowledged, by who? The far right today?
 
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There's no need for the (revisionist) lecture.

A few things off with your...interesting perspective:

- Are you a product of the Japanese educational system? Because the few thousand Chinese collaborator auxiliaries fighting alongside a Japanese army hardly count as 'Sino-Japanese'. The Nationalist army that formed the vast bulk of the attackers at Chongqing would beg to differ.

- Kashmir =/= India.

- If by Mexican troops, you mean the few hundred plainclothes agents the Falange distributed across the Southwest, than yes, that's right. You are horrifically exaggerating the events at Houston; while certain Mexican politicians might compare it to the Alamo, a few dozen Mexican agents in a shootout with the National Guard is hardly the stuff of legends.

- To be completely fair to the Argentinians, the Brazilians did do the same to Buenos Aires before the US-led counterattack. They were hardly the only member of the Allies to commit war crimes; your beloved Japanese did much worse to the Chinese before the European side of WWII, a fact that is unfortunately glossed over in the Western world.

- Yes, I am certain you are Japanese. Beloved by most of Asia? The Chinese would beg to differ, for one. Japan is nice enough now (if you're Japanese), but it has a lot of dirty laundry in its past that it's mostly gotten a free pass on from the developed world for being on the right side during WWII.

Your baseless accusations and whitewashing of your favourite parties are no reason to try to denigrate everyone else. The Nationalists were by that point a symbolic army at best, lending only a shadow of credence to the Ruso-German efforts. The Republic of China had already moved to Nanking and was allies with the Empire of Japan, this is well established. Japan's efforts freed much of mainland China while alleviating the threat to much of Southeast Asia, she also helped the region industrialize and develop into the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere after the war. Also, Stalin had already divided the Raj into five Soviet republics, Kashmiristan was only one of them along with Punjab, Tamil, Bengal, and Pradesh.

"A few hundred Mexican agents"? I guess you must be one of those Iron Arrow Party folks led by George Bush, the witnesses and ruins for blocks in any direction when they had to shell the place to the ground to root out the defenders should be proof enough. 300 US troops fought the hordes of Mondragon to a standstill, holding off the bulk of the Mexican army until the US was organized enough for a counterattack three days later. Were it not for this the Mexican army might well have reached New Orleans. But perhaps you prefer the propaganda of archconservative networks like NBC to reality?

And if justifying the brutality of either side by saying "well, the others did it too" ignores the brutality of Inferno of Dresden, the Rape of Chongqing, the Plagues of Harbin, the Siege of Stalingrad, or the Atomic Hells of Berlin/Kiel/Frankfurt/Koln/Munich/Leningrad/Moscow.
 
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