Dutch WW2 wank

I'm not saying Dutch strength is enough to tip the balance, rather than increased speed of German advanced enables the BEF to be destroyed instead of escaping and the resulting political situation enables a peace deal.
If the Dutch are known to be pro-Axis (and the British will find this out, it can't very well be secret), then the BEF will be deployed very differently. Not to mention that it almost certainly butterflies away the Mechelen Incident and changes the German invasion plan drastically (if the Dutch are friendly and supporting a move into Belgium, the Germans will adopt a different plan, which will likely be less successful in trapping the Allies).
 

Deleted member 1487

If the Dutch are known to be pro-Axis (and the British will find this out, it can't very well be secret), then the BEF will be deployed very differently. Not to mention that it almost certainly butterflies away the Mechelen Incident and changes the German invasion plan drastically (if the Dutch are friendly and supporting a move into Belgium, the Germans will adopt a different plan, which will likely be less successful in trapping the Allies).
The Allies advance to Central Belgium, not the Dyle, probably keep the French 7th army in mobile reserve behind the river line and still get rolled over via the Ardennes. Mechelin won't necessarily be butterflied and the Anglo-French war plan was not contingent on the Dutch being on their side, the Dyle variant was.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frenc...940#Escaut_Plan.2FPlan_E.2C_1939.E2.80.931940

Why would the Germans not opt for something like IOTL? The fundamental problem is still there even with a friendly Netherlands. Even the Mechelen incident didn't do more than make Hitler open to another option somewhat sooner than he was IOTL.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manstein_Plan#Prelude
 
The Allies advance to Central Belgium, not the Dyle, probably keep the French 7th army in mobile reserve behind the river line and still get rolled over via the Ardennes. Mechelin won't necessarily be butterflied and the Anglo-French war plan was not contingent on the Dutch being on their side, the Dyle variant was.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_war_planning_1920–1940#Escaut_Plan.2FPlan_E.2C_1939.E2.80.931940

Why would the Germans not opt for something like IOTL? The fundamental problem is still there even with a friendly Netherlands. Even the Mechelen incident didn't do more than make Hitler open to another option somewhat sooner than he was IOTL.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manstein_Plan#Prelude
Mechelin was such a freak occurrence that it would almost certainly be butterflied; if nothing else, the need to coordinate with their Dutch allies and the resultant changes in deployments mean that the air travel will be different.

Likewise, the presence of Dutch forces as an active, advancing enemy means the Allies and Axis will both take somewhat different approaches. An Axis Netherlands means that the defense of Belgium has to deal with a threat along a different axis, and that will change how the French planners respond (and since an Axis Netherlands implies different a different pre-war diplomatic/political situation, planning also looks different; for one thing, a revanchist Netherlands as well as Germany might mean the Belgians are less reluctant to do joint planning, and certainly means the Belgian-Dutch border is better fortified). That alone would change planning on both sides (especially if the Germans see a political/diplomatic need to support their Dutch allies more heavily than the OTL move into the Netherlands, or conversely avoid sending forces there at all).

We also strongly disagree on the political effect of a less successful Dunkerque, but that's a topic for a different thread.
 

Deleted member 1487

Mechelin was such a freak occurrence that it would almost certainly be butterflied; if nothing else, the need to coordinate with their Dutch allies and the resultant changes in deployments mean that the air travel will be different.

Likewise, the presence of Dutch forces as an active, advancing enemy means the Allies and Axis will both take somewhat different approaches. An Axis Netherlands means that the defense of Belgium has to deal with a threat along a different axis, and that will change how the French planners respond (and since an Axis Netherlands implies different a different pre-war diplomatic/political situation, planning also looks different; for one thing, a revanchist Netherlands as well as Germany might mean the Belgians are less reluctant to do joint planning, and certainly means the Belgian-Dutch border is better fortified). That alone would change planning on both sides (especially if the Germans see a political/diplomatic need to support their Dutch allies more heavily than the OTL move into the Netherlands, or conversely avoid sending forces there at all).

We also strongly disagree on the political effect of a less successful Dunkerque, but that's a topic for a different thread.
Mechelen didn't cause the Allies to rush into Belgium, all it did was confirm their existing war plans. It also wasn't the primary reason Germany dumped their 1939 war plan either, neither Hitler nor the general staff was happy with things and even after Hitler ordered a change the general staff resisted, but evolved to adopt the Manstein plan because they thought it was the only chance. Hitler too liked how bold it was, which had little to do with Mechelen.

Wait though I didn't say the Dutch would be an active belligerent against the Allies in May 1940, rather than they'd just let the Germans pass through and use their territory. Also I didn't say they'd just the Axis prior to May 1940 either, so the Dutch are neutral until the Germans roll west, as are the Belgians even if the Dutch are German friendly up to that point.
 
Wait though I didn't say the Dutch would be an active belligerent against the Allies in May 1940, rather than they'd just let the Germans pass through and use their territory. Also I didn't say they'd just the Axis prior to May 1940 either, so the Dutch are neutral until the Germans roll west, as are the Belgians even if the Dutch are German friendly up to that point.
considering how the allies acted otl, they will take even letting the germans pass as 'proof' that the netherlands is on the german side (remember we are talking about the same british that contemplated invading neutral norway).

if you want to wank the netherlands, find a way for it to completely stay neutral
 
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