Dutch-Swedish-Iroquois Northeast America?

[imawizard211]

This is my first alternate history I plan to go into a lot of detail with. Basically, to form stronger defence against English colonisation in North America, The Dutch and Swedish agree to merge their colonies peacefully rather than the dutch invading new sweeten during the great northern war. Links with the Iroquois become very strong over time as they are the Iroquois biggest trading partner. During the Napoleonic war they split from the Swedish and dutch government as the mother nations are too busy fighting France. The Iroquois and the colony form a colony with three states I haven't thought of a good name for the confederacy yet or about the implications for the rest of the world other than the fact that america will be more aristocratic and similar to south american nations.
Here is the land and Ethnic Buildup I propose for the nation

Keep in mind this is very much a WIP alternate history and I would like all the Ideas and criticism you can throw at me. : )
*and if you can think of a good name for the confederacy that would be much appreciated.

 

[water123]

One small nitpick: Sweden/Swedish. But the idea of a multinational American colony is actually pretty interesting, I'm curious to see where this goes. Will other tribes like the Huron and etc come into play?

 

[Demothenes]

Well, I do think the idea is interesting but it's important to realize the position of New England in this early Colonial period. The Plymouth Colony was established about six years before the establishment of New Amsterdam, which makes it impossible to Butterfly. While Boston was established about four years after that, it began its legal proceedings to settle about the same time, which again makes it hard to butterfly. Again, by guaranteeing the creation of New Sweden, you further set forward the establishment date to about 1645, therefore guaranteeing the existence of Boston. What's important about Boston and the Massachusetts colonies is that they provided an enormous starting base for the English American population. It's estimated that by 1670, the Puritan colonies of New England had somewhere in the neighborhood of 50,000 people, far more than the combined population of approximately 8,000 people in the New Netherlands and New Sweden, (https://web.viu.ca/davies/h320/population.colonies.htm). That isn't even accounting for the already relatively large Virginia to the South, which by the establishment of New Amsterdam had somewhere in the neighborhood of 2500 people. By 1670 that would be an added 35,000 people. But if we look towards 1650, the basic POD, we end up with a population in New England of about 22,000, more than five times the combined population of New Netherlands and New Sweden and a population of a combined Maryland, Virginia of about 23,000. The difficulty of this scenario is wedging two colonies which didn't manage to grow very large in their thirty years of existence, between two relative behemoths about 10 times their population that was growing at a faster rate. Even with the Iroquois, who in 1660 were estimated at about 10,000, the populations of New Sweden and New Netherlands would not have been large enough to have contended with the New Englanders alone, let alone the probable two tonged attack that would have occurred.

Now, what I do think would be interesting is if you shifted the New Netherlands settlement North, to where Boston is. While it was basically predetermined that the two English Colonies in Massachusetts and Virginia would eventually unify their borders, it would not be so obvious that a state with borders south of the New Netherland, would HAVE to expand Northwards. If you reverse the locations of New Amsterdam and Boston, it would be entirely conceivable that you would end up with a north focused New Netherlands and New Sweden in the Northern Parts of OTL New England- basically from OTL Boston northwards.

 

[Jürgen]

This is my first alternate history I plan to go into a lot of detail with. Basically, to form stronger defence against English colonisation in North America, The Dutch and Swedish agree to merge their colonies peacefully rather than the dutch invading new sweeten during the great northern war. Links with the Iroquois become very strong over time as they are the Iroquois biggest trading partner. During the Napoleonic war they split from the Swedish and dutch government as the mother nations are too busy fighting France. The Iroquois and the colony form a colony with three states I haven't thought of a good name for the confederacy yet or about the implications for the rest of the world other than the fact that america will be more aristocratic and similar to south american nations.
Here is the land and Ethnic Buildup I propose for the nation

Keep in mind this is very much a WIP alternate history and I would like all the Ideas and criticism you can throw at me. : )
*and if you can think of a good name for the confederacy that would be much appreciated.

Very interesting, a few thoughts.

Early settlements follow waterways, so the Dutch would likely settle north along the Hudson and then turn west toward the Great Lakes, while the Swedes would move up the Delaware and the Potomac (so include West Virginia and Northern Virginia as Swedish.. Honestly with the colonies joining I find it unlikely, I would say go with later conquest of New Sweden instead (1719) and then simply create a Quebec situation.

Nemt Think about how thectwo group are distinct from each other.

The Dutch are dominated by the cityNew Amsterdam, they’re religious heterodox with Calvinism as the dominant faith, but New Amsterdam will also be home Jews and the Dutch minority faiths like Anabaptists, Remonstrant and Lutherans, and of course a few Catholics. Cultural it’s likely a culture where rich merchants have dominated. The Dutch also make use serfs. I could see the Dutch on the frontier settling in larger settlements along the Great Lakes.

The Swedes are far less urban, religious they’re homogeneous, they likely have a greater focus on the frontier with smaller settlement dominating and they’re likely more willing to choose to move away from the big trading routes. Among the Swedes we will likely see the Lutheran clergy dominate, under Swedish rule, they was representing the Swedish state, under Dutch rule they’re community leaders and teachers.

 

[Dutchguy101]

This could be very interesting the cultural and overall historic changes would be far

 

[Arkenfolm]

Many Swedish settlers were Finns, including the ancestors of John Morton, signer of the Declaration of Independence. These Forest Finns had a long tradition of carving out farmland in the wilderness, and the American Indians couldn't be too much more challenging than hostile Sami. Although the Finns are still needed as soldiers for the Swedish Empire, they would make great settlers for this land. The Dutch didn't send nearly as many settlers as they could, but it's possible they could attract a lot of Huguenots, Jews, etc. as OTL. Germans as well, in addition to native Dutch. Sweden is the easiest to change, since they just need to redirect the ongoing migration of Finnish peasants to the Americas.

The Iroquois would end up subverted in the end, I suspect. They have different motives anyway that they might as well decide to dump these Europeans and go their own way, possibly with the help of other Europeans (Frenchmen from Quebec?).

Conquering New England will be almost impossible, as noted for demographic reasons.

 

[Mort the Reaper]

Now, what I do think would be interesting is if you shifted the New Netherlands settlement North, to where Boston is. While it was basically predetermined that the two English Colonies in Massachusetts and Virginia would eventually unify their borders, it would not be so obvious that a state with borders south of the New Netherland, would HAVE to expand Northwards. If you reverse the locations of New Amsterdam and Boston, it would be entirely conceivable that you would end up with a north focused New Netherlands and New Sweden in the Northern Parts of OTL New England- basically from OTL Boston northwards.

You're right, that would be an interesting scenario.