Dutch Philippines

MrHola

Banned
The Dutch engaged the Spanish Philippines in 1646. This campaign is known as the Battles of La Naval de Manila. Despite the fact that Spanish navy IIRC was outnumbered and outgunned, the Spanish still managed to win. They went as far as declaring their victory a miracle. So suppose that the Dutch managed to win. What would happen next? What would happen to the Philippines?
 
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I think the Dutch will send descendants of Spanish Protestants to the Philippines to govern it, unless they already forgot the language spoken by their grandparents.
 

MrHola

Banned
I think the Dutch will send descendants of Spanish Protestants to the Philippines to govern it, unless they already forgot the language spoken by their grandparents.

I don't think there were any left, to be honest. Alright. I assume the Spanish would want the crown jewel of their empire back like you wouldn't believe. What are the odds of the Dutch actually keeping the place after they conquered it?
 
I don't think there were any left, to be honest. Alright. I assume the Spanish would want the crown jewel of their empire back like you wouldn't believe. What are the odds of the Dutch actually keeping the place after they conquered it?

pretty low. too full of Catholics and Spaniards. and they already have a lucrative business down south.

though possibly the Dutch would force some concessions on the Spaniards and open up Manila as a free city. you know, to get in on the China trade.

but i don't know.
 
They will do what they did in the former Portuguese Mollucas and Sulawesi, they would suppress the Catholic religion by detaching the Christians in the Philippines from Rome, I think it is also possible that we have the Manila area be resettled by Javanese who later assimilate to the Kapampangan people.
 
I don't think there were any left, to be honest. Alright. I assume the Spanish would want the crown jewel of their empire back like you wouldn't believe. What are the odds of the Dutch actually keeping the place after they conquered it?

I don't even think the dutch can conquer manila without changing the circumstance. defeating the Spanish navy is totally different from expelling the Spanish in luzon.

the spanish forces in philippines, which by this time already included the locals, are more than sufficient to expel any dutch land invasion. The dutch couldn't even beat a low tech chinese army with 30,000 tropps in otl same time around. How much a force more advanced and capable of fielding a larger army.

Secondly, this would stop the galleon trade which in turn will force the Spanish to put all their strength just defending or recapturing.
 
I don't even think the dutch can conquer manila without changing the circumstance. defeating the Spanish navy is totally different from expelling the Spanish in luzon.

the spanish forces in philippines, which by this time already included the locals, are more than sufficient to expel any dutch land invasion. The dutch couldn't even beat a low tech chinese army with 30,000 tropps in otl same time around. How much a force more advanced and capable of fielding a larger army.

Secondly, this would stop the galleon trade which in turn will force the Spanish to put all their strength just defending or recapturing.

Exactly. We have the British example. They conquered (with high casualies) Manila but they couldn´t go forward because spaniards were able to make a 10.000 men army (200 peninsulares and 10.000 natives).. so, for Dutch to conquer Phillipines would have been very difficult task.
 
Exactly. We have the British example. They conquered (with high casualies) Manila but they couldn´t go forward because spaniards were able to make a 10.000 men army (200 peninsulares and 10.000 natives).. so, for Dutch to conquer Phillipines would have been very difficult task.

but is it at least possible to force Spain to make concessions?
 
but is it at least possible to force Spain to make concessions?

Yes, it is possible on certain conditions. None of which are present in the battle in otl.

1) Dutch need to beat a larger Spanish navy, not 3 old trade galleons
2) Dutch soldiers carried by the otl fleet are insufficient to win the land battles vs spain.
 
Exactly. We have the British example. They conquered (with high casualies) Manila but they couldn´t go forward because spaniards were able to make a 10.000 men army (200 peninsulares and 10.000 natives).. so, for Dutch to conquer Phillipines would have been very difficult task.

Britain could have held Manila indefinitely and the rest of the Philippines later had the news of British invasion in Manila reached to the negotiators of the Treaty of Paris in 1763, but unfortunately it didn't because of low-tech communications that time. Meanwhile, the Dutch could not even invade Manila because of lack of manpower.
 
Britain could have held Manila indefinitely and the rest of the Philippines later had the news of British invasion in Manila reached to the negotiators of the Treaty of Paris in 1763, but unfortunately it didn't because of low-tech communications that time. Meanwhile, the Dutch could not even invade Manila because of lack of manpower.

The actions speak louder Britain was unable to go forward after Manila. The spaniards were able to organize a 10.000 soldiers army (Philippines save 200 peninsulares). So, Britain didn´t conquer Philippines, only Manila and Cavite. During their time in the Philippines, the British found themselves confined to Manila and Cavite in a deteriorating situation, unable to extend British control over the islands and unable to make good their promised support for an uprising led first by Diego Silang and later by his wife Gabriela, which was crushed by Spanish forces
 
Britain could have held Manila indefinitely and the rest of the Philippines later had the news of British invasion in Manila reached to the negotiators of the Treaty of Paris in 1763, but unfortunately it didn't because of low-tech communications that time. Meanwhile, the Dutch could not even invade Manila because of lack of manpower.

You got the other way around. The British knew they were invading manila. The spanish in manila didn't even know there was a war when the British invaded. So had the news arrived to spain, they would have sent reinforcements due to deteriorating situation of the British in Manila.

There is a possibility in ATL that the British could have held manila indefinitely in that war. But that would require non action from the Spanish both in the colony and possible reinforcements from Europe or the Americas and more reinforcement from the British.
 
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