Dutch North Rhineland

What if the United Kingdom of the Netherlands had gotten the northern portion of the Rhineland at Vienna?

I assume the Bavarian Palatinate would be larger. here as well.

What would Prussia get as compensation for the lost portion of the Rhineland? More of Saxony? A Dutch Colony that could be horse-traded for something else at the Congress of Vienna?

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I really don't get why the Dutch would take a French-stile Left bank border, at this point give them the protestant Ruhr valley instead of the southern Catholic areas around Trier and Koblenz, it just makes more sense.
 
I really don't get why the Dutch would take a French-stile Left bank border, at this point give them the protestant Ruhr valley instead of the southern Catholic areas around Trier and Koblenz, it just makes more sense.
Back then nationality wasn't a big thing yet and the area has much minerals and other things the Dutch wanted. The north is great for fishing and farming but that doesn't earn you much.
 
The latest this could happen would be if at the Congress of Vienna the Polish-Saxon crisis causes a war between France/Britain/Austria and Prussia/Russia. If Prussia losses I could see the Netherlands being given control over the Rhineland for it's own "protection." In exchange the Dutch may have to part of the German Confederation though a Schleswig-Holstein type of outcome is also possible.
 
The latest this could happen would be if at the Congress of Vienna the Polish-Saxon crisis causes a war between France/Britain/Austria and Prussia/Russia. If Prussia losses I could see the Netherlands being given control over the Rhineland for it's own "protection." In exchange the Dutch may have to part of the German Confederation though a Schleswig-Holstein type of outcome is also possible.
A Netherlands this size could be the one who leads it in place off Prussia.
 
The latest this could happen would be if at the Congress of Vienna the Polish-Saxon crisis causes a war between France/Britain/Austria and Prussia/Russia. If Prussia losses I could see the Netherlands being given control over the Rhineland for it's own "protection." In exchange the Dutch may have to part of the German Confederation though a Schleswig-Holstein type of outcome is also possible.
I doybt this would mean a Netherlands inside the confederation. It could be split though, with the German parts of the Netherlands inside the confederation, with the rest outside it. Kind of like OTL Luxemburg.

Also the reason for it was less that the Dutch wanted it (they probably would be happy with just the former lands of the Dutch republic). It was the rather ambitious Willem I, the Dutch king, who wanted the rhineland, partly so he could connect the Netherlands to te county of Nassau (which he hoped would be restored to him too). It probably was more a starting point of the negotiations than a serious offer. Set in high and and end up with the southern Netherlands.
 
Netherlands with Belgium, Luxembourg, North Rhineland, and Nassau would be quite the beast.

I don't think you need a full Polish-Saxon crisis dynamic to get the Dutch the North Rhineland. Just horse-trade some more. Prussia keeping Westphalia and getting chunks of Hanover for contiguity. Hanover meanwhile gets a colony from Prussia that the Dutch ceded to the Prussians.
 
Which colony would the Netherlands want to cede though? The Netherlands was already forced to accept, that the UK would keep the Dutch Cape Colony, they would never cede the Dutch East Indies, that would only leave some small coastal possessions in Africa (mostly trading post and yes some were for the slave trade), the Dutch Antilles and Surinam, though Surinam was also rather profitable.
The only thing the Dutch government would realistic want to cede for the ambitions of Willem I were some islands of the Dutch Antilles and some of the few coastal possessions in Africa. That IMHO is not enough for such gains, unless Prussia gets expansion elsewhere. In which case the Netherlands could have got a bit more, though I doubt all of the OP proposal.
 
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After the Belgian Revolt, the Dutch lose Belgium, but retain the Rhineland as a corridor connecting Holland to Luxembourg. Thus creating the Triero-Limburgian Panhandle (also called the Luxo-Koblenzo-Limburg Triangle), the most atrocious border in human history.
 
After the Belgian Revolt, the Dutch lose Belgium, but retain the Rhineland as a corridor connecting Holland to Luxembourg. Thus creating the Triero-Limburgian Panhandle (also called the Luxo-Koblenzo-Limburg Triangle), the most atrocious border in human history.
Actualy, I think that with aDutch rhineland that is loyal to the Dutch king, the Dutch might be able to crush the Belgian revolt, assuming it is not entirely butterflied away (it would cause a completely diferent political situation in the Netherlands after all). Certainly the end result would be different. A more succesfull Netherlands might mean that all of Limburg and Luxemburg remain Dutch for example.
 
Should we assume that Nassau might be given to some other family, or would they continue being related to the Horse of Orange with that one pact they had which involved the head of one house inheriting the land of the other if one branch went extinct. It is partially why Luxembourg separated from the Netherlands. The Netherlands got a queen but due to Luxembourg being under German inheritance laws, it went to the deposed former Duke of Nassau. Looking it up, it seems the Grand Duke still keeps the claim to that title. Would be interesting to see a map in which he is not deposed, and we have Luxembourg and Nassau tied in union.

Anyways, we should look at subdivisoins here. What level of autonomy does each regoin have? Will the Rhenish and Belgian areas be given governments similar to those of the old United Provinces? There are a few Prince-Archbishoprics here (well, one to three) and the Dutch might actually find keeping those around in their contemporary territorial borders to be a good idea. Not then Prince-Bishops, mind you. It would simply be a good way to have some anti-High Clergy sentiment going in Catholic areas, which the Calvinists of the north might think as a 'good start'. It really depends on if this whole conglomeration will by autocratic monarchal or something more democratic.
 
Anyways, we should look at subdivisoins here. What level of autonomy does each regoin have?
My theory would be that all the traditional lands of the Netherlands would become one country (basicly the Netherlands Belgium and Luxemburg) would become one completely independent country, while the German lands would become another country part of the German confederation. Both are in personal union with each other with Willem I as king and are in actuality closely integrated and function as one country. It would be a tri lingual country, Dutch being spoken in the Dutch part (and possiblt in the German areas bordering the Netherlands, like Cleves), while German is spoken in the rhineland and (eastern) Luxemburg and French in Wallonia. I think the German lands would have some autonomy, since they are part of the confederation. The rest (thus the Netherlands) would be similar to OTL. OTL future Willem II lived in Bussels (partly to function as a representative of the royal family in Brussels), I think here he would go to the German lands. Not sure where, maybe Cologne would be the capital of that area. His (more competent) brother might end up in Brussels(that alone might prevent the Belgian revolt BTW).
 
I'm not sure they'd split the realm that much. Luxembourg at least had a history as an independent polity when it was made into a state in personal union with the rest of the Netherlands and Limburg, while being part of the Netherlands, was in the German Confederation as well IIRC. Austria and Prussia also had parts of their countries that were within the Confederation and parts that were not. I think it is more likely that we'd see a Limburg-type situation, where there's a sub-polity of the Netherlands that is part of the German Confederation.

Also, considering how Dutch is just one dialect of the German dialect continuum when we really get down to it and how Limburg historically had a dialect that was much more different from standard Dutch than it is today, why wouldn't a similar transition happen in the Northern Rhineland? Dialects of German in that area (Low Bergish and Meuse-Rhenish) aren't that different from traditional Limburgish.

When coal mining starts up in Wallonia, what are the odds that there might be a sizable influx of Rhinelanders to the area? Would Dutch be used as a common tongue between the Walloons and Rhenish?

I don't think Willem II would live in Cologne, as the city would be right on the border. Maastricht would make more sense - historically Dutch, in German-ish Limburg, and in a very central geographic position not that far from Wallonia.



Also, as part of all the horse-trading at Vienna, what about Prussia getting Nassau in exchange for the Netherlands getting North Rhineland?
 
There was also several smaller German Reformed states which used Dutch as Church and administrative language.

We would likely see a line following the Wallon-Flemish border continuing east through the new German territories,which would split Dutch from Moselle Frankish (pretty much Luxembourgian German, Berg would likely also end up Dutch speaking, while Nassau would end up speaking standard German.
 
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