Dutch Cape Colony economy, politics, society etc.

abc123

Banned
So, let's imagine that the Dutch Cape Colony survives until today- never mind the POD. So, let's say that somewhere in late 1800s/early 1900s they became an independent nation- Cape/Kaap Republic. Let's also assume that their territory consists of OTL Western Cape province with Port Elizabeth area on east and up to Oranje on north.

Area east and north of that was colonised by Britain, but Dutch Cape Colony/Republic managed to survive.

So, I wan't to know what would be their economy, politics, society etc.

Map:

pbi09xj961u1fy8knevv_thumb.png


Kaap Republic is in orange ( ignore other colours )


I know that the POD is before 1900, but I posted it here because I'm intrested in current situation.
 
Germaniac

Germaniac

Donor
Unless they can grow a bit further inland, to gain access to diamonds, the colony is bound to fail once the Suez is opened.
 

Marius

You really can't speculate how a Cape Republic would be without a POD that's been thought through. What are its neighbouring countries like, what kind of immigration did it get, what happens to it with regard to the various European rivalries of the 19th and 20th centuries?
 

abc123

Banned
Marius said:
You really can't speculate how a Cape Republic would be without a POD that's been thought through. What are its neighbouring countries like, what kind of immigration did it get, what happens to it with regard to the various European rivalries of the 19th and 20th centuries?
Click to expand...

OK, let's say:

- neighbouring countries: Namibia ( former German/British colony ), Kingdom of Lesotho ( former British protectorate ), Republic of Natal ( former British colony ), Limpopo Republic ( former British colony ) and Republic of Botswana ( former British colony ).

- immigration: mostly Dutch, but other European immigration too: British, german, French, Eastern European, bit Asian etc.

- about rivalries- until end of 19th century, it's Dutch colony ( with home-rule since say 1860s ) and the Netherlands is neutral at the time IIRC. After that, I don't know.

What do you think?
 

abc123

Banned
A map:

m2o9bu8zu0ci37spqzss_thumb.png


Blue- Kaap Republic
Red- Botswana
Green- Natal
Yellow- Swazi
Large white- Lesotho
Brown- Limpopo
 

abc123

Banned
OK, I know that it is some sort of handwavium, but let's say that after Napoleonic wars British return the Cape Colony to the Dutch. Let's say that the Dutch give them right to have a naval base at Simon's Town in return or/and give them some other colonial concesion instead. ;)

There, now you have your POD.
 

abc123

Banned
abc123 said:
OK, I know that it is some sort of handwavium, but let's say that after Napoleonic wars British return the Cape Colony to the Dutch. Let's say that the Dutch give them right to have a naval base at Simon's Town in return or/and give them some other colonial concesion instead. ;)

There, now you have your POD.
Click to expand...

So nobody is intrested?
 

abc123

Banned
Marius said:
I am, but we need some background for the rest of the sub-continent.

Why don't you give it a bash yourself and people can critique that and help you flesh out your ideas.
Click to expand...

Well it seems that I have no other choice....
;)
 

abc123

Banned
Start of TL

After long negotiations, a treaty was signed between United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and Republic of Seven United Netherlands- later known as London Convention.
It was signed by Robert Stewart, Viscount Castlereagh, for Britain and Hendrik Fagel for the Dutch.

The treaty returned the colonial possessions of the Dutch as they were at January 1, 1803 before the outbreak of the Napoleonic Wars, in the Americas, Africa, and Asia with the exception of the South American settlements around Guiana ( later consolidated as British Guiana), where the Dutch retained trading rights, while British decided to give back Cape Colony back to the Dutch, but keeping trading rights there. Netherlands also allowed basing rights for Royal Navy in False Bay, south of Kaapstadt, but the territory will remain under Dutch civilian rule. British and the Dutch agreed that the border between them will go trough Kowie river. The Dutch ceded all rights on territory east of Great Fish River to the British.

In addition, the British ceded the island of Banca off the island of Sumatra in exchange for the settlement of Cochin in India and its dependencies on the coast of Malabar. The Dutch also ceded the district of Bernagore, situated close to Calcutta. The treaty also noted a declaration of June 15, 1814, by the Dutch that ships for the slave trade were no longer permitted in British ports and it agreed that this restriction would be extended to a ban on involvement in the slave trade by Dutch citizens.

Britain also agreed to pay £1,000,000 to Sweden to resolve a claim to the Caribbean island of Guadeloupe (see Guadeloupe Fund ). The British and the Dutch agreed to spend £2,000,000 each on improving the defences of the Low Countries. More funds, of up to £3,000,000, are mentioned for the "final and satisfactory settlement of the Low Countries in union with Holland." Disputes arising from this treaty were the subject of the Anglo-Dutch Treaty of 1824.

So, gaining their old colony back, Dutch Government decided to send colonial administration and soldiers back to the Cape of Good Hope. As governor was chosen previous governer Jacob Abraham Uitenhage de Mist.

Jakob_Abraham_de_Mist.jpg


Governor Jacob Abraham de Mist

800px-Cape_Town_in_1800.jpg


Cape Town/Kaapstadt in 1815
 
Last edited:
Reagent

Reagent

A number of suggestions / ideas

- I suspect that Cape Colony will rebel at some point if the Dutch try to assume more authority over the colony (or abolish slavery, though I am not sure if this would be enough)

- I could see the British trying to acquire earlier to ensure they have a permanent port in the South Africa region. We could see a greater British presence in the region, as the *1820 Settlers* would only be directed towards Natal

-Perhaps have the British take over the rest of Dutch Guiana to "balance out" the "loss" of Cape Colony
 

Gurroruo

abc123 said:
Help me people, if I could continue alone, I would have done that long time ago...
Click to expand...

Start a history. Maybe some wars with the African people's. Or you could have a revolt like Reagent said. Hey one tip for you is jumping forward through time is ok. Also you could have an incident in Europe cause war down there. Maybe even set yourself a goal like in 2013 the Cape is a dictatorship that is conquering South Africa, but I recommend you don't use that one.
 

abc123

Banned
Reagent said:
A number of suggestions / ideas

- I suspect that Cape Colony will rebel at some point if the Dutch try to assume more authority over the colony (or abolish slavery, though I am not sure if this would be enough)

- I could see the British trying to acquire earlier to ensure they have a permanent port in the South Africa region. We could see a greater British presence in the region, as the *1820 Settlers* would only be directed towards Natal

-Perhaps have the British take over the rest of Dutch Guiana to "balance out" the "loss" of Cape Colony
Click to expand...

I was actually thinking about something like that...;)
 

Marius

Reagent said:
A number of suggestions / ideas

- I suspect that Cape Colony will rebel at some point if the Dutch try to assume more authority over the colony (or abolish slavery, though I am not sure if this would be enough)

- I could see the British trying to acquire earlier to ensure they have a permanent port in the South Africa region. We could see a greater British presence in the region, as the *1820 Settlers* would only be directed towards Natal

-Perhaps have the British take over the rest of Dutch Guiana to "balance out" the "loss" of Cape Colony
Click to expand...

I think in 1806 Port Elizabeth did not yet exist, so perhaps the British could claim that.

We would still have the 1820 settlers so we would probably still have the Border Wars etc.

Perhaps they would be more violent?

Or, the British could ignore what is today the Eastern Cape and go straight to Natal.
 

abc123

Banned
Marius said:
I think in 1806 Port Elizabeth did not yet exist, so perhaps the British could claim that.

We would still have the 1820 settlers so we would probably still have the Border Wars etc.

Perhaps they would be more violent?

Or, the British could ignore what is today the Eastern Cape and go straight to Natal.
Click to expand...

So you think that the British will, in absence of Cape Town, go for Durban and Natal, right away, or will they wait for 1820s as OTL?
 
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