Dutch-Americans a coherent demographic

In Cedar Grove, Wisconsin, there is an annual Holland Fest, complete with klompen dancing, Dutch costume, oliebollen - a kind of pastry like a giant doughnut hole, and worstebroodjes - like pigs in a blanket. I think there is a band, too, that plays "traditional" music. But its been over 150 years since the Dutch settlers came over from the Netherlands, so God only knows how authentic any of this is.
 
Doesn't Holland, Michigan have a "Tulip Time" festival replete with klompen dancing? That strikes me as a bit like St. Patrick's Day. Plus, that region is the heartland of both the Reform Church in America and the Christian Reformed Church.

True, I stand corrected. I've actually been to the Tulip Festival though I don't know how much of a venue for flesh-pressing and baby-kissing it is. As for the churches, apparently the rivalry between the two Reformed schools Hope College and Calvin College is as fierce as between schools ten times their size.
 
I think the main problem will be that there will not be enough direct links with the Netherlands for most Dutch Americans. There's a lot of difference in that regard between second and sixth generation Dutch Americans. What are the pre-1940 immigration statistics?
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Well the easiest way would be that New Netherland survived a little longer, in the middle of the 18th century many Churches in New York area still used Dutch, and in New Jersey Dutch survived in some counties to the early 20th century. If New Netherland had survived a decade or two more, quite likely the Dutch population of the area could have reached a mass where they could assimilate the following immigrant waves, of course the result would have been a Dutch speaking Quebec in USA than anything like OTL Italian-, Irish- and German-Americans.

The other solution could be that some kind of disaster hit Netherlands in the 19th century so we would see waves of Dutch settlers to USA, the problem are just that they are more likely to go to South Africa, which was why we didn't see many Dutch emigrate to USA in OTL.
 
How out there would forced relocation to French territories in America during Napoleon's occupation of the Netherlands be?
Say from Vlaanderen,Brabant and Limburg to ensure French dominance in those parts.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
How out there would forced relocation to French territories in America during Napoleon's occupation of the Netherlands be?
Say from Vlaanderen,Brabant and Limburg to ensure French dominance in those parts.

Extremely unlikely to the point of ASB, it would be against all the values of both the French republic and Napoleons rule was build on.
 
I agree on Valdemar, but I think the only option would be a New Netherlands which survive, and prospered a few decades longer, or even more than a few decades. Suppose the New Netherlands joined the USA, (when all the rest goes more or les OTL) after Napoleon anexed the Netherlands.

New Amsterdam recieved city right in 1652 ( if I am right) and from then on the economic growth, and population growth went up.
Asume only a brieg English ocupation between1665 and 1673 this will give almost a century more Dutch administration and influx of trade and culture,a nd when colonist in the 18th century when wages of citizens in the Netherlands were detoriating. This will give time to ''bread'' an American Dutch type of language and cultural habits.
By the way, this would be regarded as ''Dutch'' in the USA but be more an own intrepetation of Dutch culture more like Afrikaans ( without the hars calvinist attitude). No doubt most of the language will fade away and assimilate with English over time when it will join the USA.

Something else USA english have already numerous Dutch words. see

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_words_of_Dutch_origin

some of them are from Afrikaans and some due to centuries of trade and combined naval activities, but there are Dutch word picked up in America.
 
I think that the fact that a " I'm a Netherlander" feeling wasn't really around pre 1830 might have a lot to do with the Dutch not being a coherent group.

Before the Kingdom it really was a group of smaller countries in the mind of the people. So a Brabander wouldn't necessarily hang out with his neighbor from Holland or Friesland and might rather go to say his Irish neighbor with both of them being Catholic. Just like the Hollander would probably hang out with a fellow Protestant.

and that is besides the we're a nation of traders and people buy more of your stuff if they don't need a translator?
 
The Dutch truly dominate much of western Michigan. A popular bumper sticker used to be "You're not much if you're not Dutch." There is a tremendous network of private Christian schools to serve the community. Centered in the Grand Rapids-Holland-Zeeland area, the Dutch Reform have a very conservative bent. They have given to the United States institutions such as Blackwater, via Eric Prince (originally Prins), and Amway. There influence is not well known outside the area, but they do have tremendous power in the United States.
 
I think that the fact that a " I'm a Netherlander" feeling wasn't really around pre 1830 might have a lot to do with the Dutch not being a coherent group.

Before the Kingdom it really was a group of smaller countries in the mind of the people. So a Brabander wouldn't necessarily hang out with his neighbor from Holland or Friesland and might rather go to say his Irish neighbor with both of them being Catholic. Just like the Hollander would probably hang out with a fellow Protestant.

and that is besides the we're a nation of traders and people buy more of your stuff if they don't need a translator?

I disagree, it's much more like the ancient Greek states. It's more of a we might be from Corinth, Sparta or Athens, but were all Greek mentallity.
 
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