Looks interesting. I like the calming effect Anne seems to have on Henry. I can just imagine a modern Henry walking into a gym and saying to a trainer "hi, I need to lose weight. My wife refuses to have sex with me looking like this"
Duarte II and Alfred I, the Kings that nobody expected
- Thread starter kaiidth
- Start date
Looks interesting. I like the calming effect Anne seems to have on Henry. I can just imagine a modern Henry walking into a gym and saying to a trainer "hi, I need to lose weight. My wife refuses to have sex with me looking like this"
My complaint is there is nothing in the story butterflying Henry's OTL revulsion of Anne herself. Just jumps in with "Hey, they're having a baby" when OTL Henry VIII couldn't get past the fact that she didn't recognize him in the courtly love scenario he played (she didn't recognize him because courtly love scenarios didn't play in Cleves). So, he didn't like her from the first meeting. If you're going to butterfly something, I need a reason. Otherwise, it's handwaving and annoying to those of us with historical knowledge of the OTL situation. OTL, he was so repulsed, he couldn't get it up for her.
Handwaving: just changing something arbitrarily to fit your TL without rhyme or reason or regard for known facts. (Added for anyone not familiar with the term.)
Handwaving: just changing something arbitrarily to fit your TL without rhyme or reason or regard for known facts. (Added for anyone not familiar with the term.)
For desmirelle
I actually wrote this as an explanation for Henry getting through with the whole Marriage and Bedding of Anne.
He is as you can read in later Chapters still not attracted to her but she gave him living sons after he lost Eddy.
He adores her ability, he fulfill some of her wishes, he listens to some of her advice and continue to sleep with her because she proved herself just a few months into their marriage by getting pregnant and barely a year later after he lost his son, by giving him another one.
For Enjoyment he still uses Mistresses.
I actually wrote this as an explanation for Henry getting through with the whole Marriage and Bedding of Anne.
He is as you can read in later Chapters still not attracted to her but she gave him living sons after he lost Eddy.
He adores her ability, he fulfill some of her wishes, he listens to some of her advice and continue to sleep with her because she proved herself just a few months into their marriage by getting pregnant and barely a year later after he lost his son, by giving him another one.
For Enjoyment he still uses Mistresses.
Still doesn't butterfly the reason he didn't like her. He needed a second son OTL, didn't motivate him. Especially with Catherine Howard as one of her ladies. But, it's your TL. Handwave away.
Desmirelle , i now know that you don't find it plausible but remember, even in OTL Harry was like quicksilver, one minute this, the next day that.
He willed himself to sincerely believe that everything was Anne Boleyns fault in OTL and she bewitched him and persuaded him when it was the other way around.
You are right in OT he couldn't get over himself with Anne of Cleves even when he wanted another son but he did marry her, he just decided after a couple of months of not even once sleeping with her that he wanted to marry his little Rose without Thorns and divorced Anne.
And Anne was smarter, she got a way better deal than Katherine Aragon.
Estates, Money, an honorable title as beloved sister of the King.
I like this Anne that knows when and how to pick a fight and this is how I want to write her in TTL.
The Difference here is that Harry is not in his right mind, he just lost his only son, he has his bride standing ready-to-go and so he will in these first months of marriage visit her once a week in her bed and wills himself to get the business done.
He willed himself to sincerely believe that everything was Anne Boleyns fault in OTL and she bewitched him and persuaded him when it was the other way around.
You are right in OT he couldn't get over himself with Anne of Cleves even when he wanted another son but he did marry her, he just decided after a couple of months of not even once sleeping with her that he wanted to marry his little Rose without Thorns and divorced Anne.
And Anne was smarter, she got a way better deal than Katherine Aragon.
Estates, Money, an honorable title as beloved sister of the King.
I like this Anne that knows when and how to pick a fight and this is how I want to write her in TTL.
The Difference here is that Harry is not in his right mind, he just lost his only son, he has his bride standing ready-to-go and so he will in these first months of marriage visit her once a week in her bed and wills himself to get the business done.
08.July 1545
The air outside the Palace of Valladolid was already sizzling hot, when just around the midday, after long painful hours of birthing contractions, Infanta Maria Manuela with a heartfelt scream pressed for the last time and finally her first child was outside of her tormented body.
It was silent in the overheated and darkened room, even tough the young mother was not alone but rather surrounded by helping women, of which a few hurt her body more in trying to get the child out, than the child itself.
No-one was even breathing loudly besides of course the Infanta.
All others were staring at the malformed thing that was freshly born.
It was silent, it wasn't even breathing and they all thanked God that this creature was born dead.
The Infanta, finally a little bit more calmed asked to see to what she gave birth to and reluctantly one midwife showed her the dead child.
Maria started to scream so loud that all the others in the room were covering their ears.
A small twisted body with stumps for arms and legs and an overgrown head.
Why her child, why her.
The tears fell rapidly, she had never felt so much pain in her life as while giving birth and for what?
A spawn of hell. Thank all the Saints for the small mercy that it was not alive.
Through all this shock nobody really realized that the Infanta was still bleeding.
She was screaming at the women of the Court and the Midwifes to get out of the room, she felt suffocated by them.
They went out into the next room, taking the creature with them, so that the Priest could do his work.
After a little while the tears and screams of a dissapointed mother grew quieter and finally stopped.
A mixture of blood loss and shock killed the young Infanta barely two hours after the birth of her first child.
The air outside the Palace of Valladolid was already sizzling hot, when just around the midday, after long painful hours of birthing contractions, Infanta Maria Manuela with a heartfelt scream pressed for the last time and finally her first child was outside of her tormented body.
It was silent in the overheated and darkened room, even tough the young mother was not alone but rather surrounded by helping women, of which a few hurt her body more in trying to get the child out, than the child itself.
No-one was even breathing loudly besides of course the Infanta.
All others were staring at the malformed thing that was freshly born.
It was silent, it wasn't even breathing and they all thanked God that this creature was born dead.
The Infanta, finally a little bit more calmed asked to see to what she gave birth to and reluctantly one midwife showed her the dead child.
Maria started to scream so loud that all the others in the room were covering their ears.
A small twisted body with stumps for arms and legs and an overgrown head.
Why her child, why her.
The tears fell rapidly, she had never felt so much pain in her life as while giving birth and for what?
A spawn of hell. Thank all the Saints for the small mercy that it was not alive.
Through all this shock nobody really realized that the Infanta was still bleeding.
She was screaming at the women of the Court and the Midwifes to get out of the room, she felt suffocated by them.
They went out into the next room, taking the creature with them, so that the Priest could do his work.
After a little while the tears and screams of a dissapointed mother grew quieter and finally stopped.
A mixture of blood loss and shock killed the young Infanta barely two hours after the birth of her first child.
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Mary can still marry Philip II and Elizabeth can marry Beja..I think that can happen since Philippa of Lancaster married at 29.
An interesting idea but if you wish for that to happen, I fear that i will disappoint you.
The King of Portugal finally agreed to marry as soon as possible after he received the news of the death of his last Child a few days later.
He send a message to his dear future father-in-law, that yes he would like to be wedded to the oldest Daughter of the King of England.
It could be worse he thought to himself, she could be nearly thirty AND heretic.
With Mary he would at least know that the Marriage will be recognized as truly lawful by the Catholic Church and if she might have only daughters he could offer them for marriage without Problems.
Actually all these last thoughts were what his Brother the Cardinal told him all the time, so many times in just a few weeks that he just nodded in the end and agreed that yes, Mary was the better Choice.
Sometimes a man just needed to have his peace after a long time listening to an annoying younger Brother.
He send a message to his dear future father-in-law, that yes he would like to be wedded to the oldest Daughter of the King of England.
It could be worse he thought to himself, she could be nearly thirty AND heretic.
With Mary he would at least know that the Marriage will be recognized as truly lawful by the Catholic Church and if she might have only daughters he could offer them for marriage without Problems.
Actually all these last thoughts were what his Brother the Cardinal told him all the time, so many times in just a few weeks that he just nodded in the end and agreed that yes, Mary was the better Choice.
Sometimes a man just needed to have his peace after a long time listening to an annoying younger Brother.
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Felipe knelt down on the smooth and cold marble tiles in front of the Altar of San Pablo.
He did not look to the right side where two weeks ago his stillborn malformed child was buried under one of the tiles.
The Priest that gave his deadborn child the last rites promised him that whatever sin did lay upon this child would be forgiven with the help of the Saint Pablo.
His wife was entombed were his dear Mother already was laid for eternal Rest.
He felt for the first time in his life truly dissapointed with everything.
Maybe she should have stayed in a different Palace, maybe it would have ended better somewhere else.
But he himself was born here in Valladolid and his mother liked this place.
He sighed.
Whatever God's plan for him was, he would have to make his peace with it.
Behind him he heard fast steps coming nearer.
He told everyone to give him half an hour of peace, the monchs promised it to him.
He turned his head slightly and the approaching person was clad in the frock of the Dominicans. The monch, at least he seemed to be one, had his head bend, the hood was obscuring his face.
"It would please me greatly if you would let me have a little bit more time to pray in private. The good Father Abbot promised me till the Vesper Praying Time."
The monch was silent. His head was still bend.
His frockcladed body leant slightly forward and he stepped a little bit closer to the Altar.
He seemed to be too deep in Prayer to acknowledge anything or anyone else.
He didn't even seemed to have heard that he was spoken to by the Infante.
Felipe turned his head back to face the Altarpiece and resumed his praying.
The Monch had the right idea, don't try to disturb others that are talking with God, pray for yourself so that The Lord of All might lead oneself through Prayer back on the right way.
The Infante bend his head in deep Thought, folded his hands and was whispering the Deo Gratias..........A SEARING AND BRUTAL STINGING PAIN SHOT THROUGH HIS NECK.....He wanted to scream, his Guards were outside in front of the Church doors, he opened his lips but a hard hand clamped across his mouth and the Attacker hold Felipes still kneeling body tight against his own standing one.
The Infante clawed desperately at the Person behind him but to no avail.
The horrible sharp knife was slashing through the skin and the veins and the throat till it was stopped by the bones of the neck.
The Attacker laid the bleeding body carefully down and looked into the face of the dead Infante.
One less of them on this world.
He smirked and disrobed himself of the bloody frock.
Riding clothes were underneath and they were clean.
The Killer of Felipe, Infante of Spain and only Heir of the Emperor walked to the left of the Altar, opened the door into the Sacristy and with quick steps left the Church unseen.
Everyone else had been waiting for the Infante in front of the Main Church Doors.
Felipe was found at the beginning Vesper time barely a quarter hour later.
The only living Son of Carlos V died just 18years old.
And everything changed in Spain.
He did not look to the right side where two weeks ago his stillborn malformed child was buried under one of the tiles.
The Priest that gave his deadborn child the last rites promised him that whatever sin did lay upon this child would be forgiven with the help of the Saint Pablo.
His wife was entombed were his dear Mother already was laid for eternal Rest.
He felt for the first time in his life truly dissapointed with everything.
Maybe she should have stayed in a different Palace, maybe it would have ended better somewhere else.
But he himself was born here in Valladolid and his mother liked this place.
He sighed.
Whatever God's plan for him was, he would have to make his peace with it.
Behind him he heard fast steps coming nearer.
He told everyone to give him half an hour of peace, the monchs promised it to him.
He turned his head slightly and the approaching person was clad in the frock of the Dominicans. The monch, at least he seemed to be one, had his head bend, the hood was obscuring his face.
"It would please me greatly if you would let me have a little bit more time to pray in private. The good Father Abbot promised me till the Vesper Praying Time."
The monch was silent. His head was still bend.
His frockcladed body leant slightly forward and he stepped a little bit closer to the Altar.
He seemed to be too deep in Prayer to acknowledge anything or anyone else.
He didn't even seemed to have heard that he was spoken to by the Infante.
Felipe turned his head back to face the Altarpiece and resumed his praying.
The Monch had the right idea, don't try to disturb others that are talking with God, pray for yourself so that The Lord of All might lead oneself through Prayer back on the right way.
The Infante bend his head in deep Thought, folded his hands and was whispering the Deo Gratias..........A SEARING AND BRUTAL STINGING PAIN SHOT THROUGH HIS NECK.....He wanted to scream, his Guards were outside in front of the Church doors, he opened his lips but a hard hand clamped across his mouth and the Attacker hold Felipes still kneeling body tight against his own standing one.
The Infante clawed desperately at the Person behind him but to no avail.
The horrible sharp knife was slashing through the skin and the veins and the throat till it was stopped by the bones of the neck.
The Attacker laid the bleeding body carefully down and looked into the face of the dead Infante.
One less of them on this world.
He smirked and disrobed himself of the bloody frock.
Riding clothes were underneath and they were clean.
The Killer of Felipe, Infante of Spain and only Heir of the Emperor walked to the left of the Altar, opened the door into the Sacristy and with quick steps left the Church unseen.
Everyone else had been waiting for the Infante in front of the Main Church Doors.
Felipe was found at the beginning Vesper time barely a quarter hour later.
The only living Son of Carlos V died just 18years old.
And everything changed in Spain.
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The News of the Death of Carlos heir was known in the whole of Europe in barely one week.
The most powerful King lost his Heir.....murdered in a Church....why did nobody knows anything......what now......who will be King of Spain after Carlos.......or Emperor....the Austrian side of the Family of course.......but Spain...who will rule there.....
Emperor Carlos couldn't stop weeping..
He always made the best of everything bad in his Life but this was too much..
What now? He will have to name another one as his heir.
What now, why god whygodwhygod....
The most powerful King lost his Heir.....murdered in a Church....why did nobody knows anything......what now......who will be King of Spain after Carlos.......or Emperor....the Austrian side of the Family of course.......but Spain...who will rule there.....
Emperor Carlos couldn't stop weeping..
He always made the best of everything bad in his Life but this was too much..
What now? He will have to name another one as his heir.
What now, why god whygodwhygod....
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It's your TL, handwave away. You don't have to justify it to me or anyone else.
I hope you can enjoy other parts of my TL more, than the parts about Henry and Anne.
Interesting concept, that hasn’t been touched before. Same as desmirelle, it does seem a little too much of a hand waving.
What about a game of throne type scenario? king Henry gets drunk and does the deed with Anne and before he can get a divorce from her he finds out she’s pregnant.
And I actually read something like that in a timeline here on AH.
Can't remember the name right now.
I just don't think that my idea is too bad.
Handwaving including
Take OT Philip and Mary for example.
Do you think he was in any way attracted to her. Still he managed to get it up at least a couple of times or he would have not believed it the first time Mary Mentioned Pregnancy.
Later on not but the first year it seemed possible for him.
There were enough Kings and Nobles in history, that were known to really abhor their Dynasty Duties of Procreation and not all could do it, but a lot of them managed to get their wives pregnant, even if they were only interested in the same sex, a lot still managed to have enough sex with women they were absolutely not attracted too.
Philip didn't show up the morning after the wedding night and go: "I felt her breasts and don't think she's a virgin and then I couldn't get it up, and I still can't, although I still have wet dreams, I just can't get it up for Anne of Cleves, who has loose boobs and bad breath and needs a shower and I'm executing Cromwell because I don't like my wife." (Okay, Henry didn't say it all at once, but eventually, he said and did it all.) Even though he needed an heir to back up Edward. OTL he wouldn't go past his wounded ego to give Anne of Cleves a roll in the hay. He failed in his duty, that's all there is to it. And was able to pull it off by bribing Anne (who apparently liked her freedom in England, as opposed to the restrictions on her in Cleves) to go along with his wishes.
Philip was getting a Queen Regnant as a wife, Henry VIII a German noblewoman - BIG difference in motivation here.
But, kaiidth, IT'S YOUR TL. Do with it as thou wilt.
Philip was getting a Queen Regnant as a wife, Henry VIII a German noblewoman - BIG difference in motivation here.
But, kaiidth, IT'S YOUR TL. Do with it as thou wilt.