Dualistic Rival Faiths?

Finn · Sep 30, 2012

Is it possible for there to be a situation in which there are two religions from the same source, each worshiping a certain deity while considering the deity the other religion worships to literally be the source of evil? Maybe a schism between two prophets?

No, Satanism doesn't really count, it's always been a bunch of atheists trolling Christians.

eliphas8 · Sep 30, 2012

Zoroastrianism and Hinduism could certainly have evolved into this with time, they dont worship the same diety but they are so similar in all other ways that a feud could certainly start if a rival Hindu power to Zoroastrian Persia comes into being.

Beedok · Sep 30, 2012

Finn said:
Is it possible for there to be a situation in which there are two religions from the same source, each worshiping a certain deity while considering the deity the other religion worships to literally be the source of evil? Maybe a schism between two prophets?

No, Satanism doesn't really count, it's always been a bunch of atheists trolling Christians.

I think Islam and Christianity have been acting like this from time to time.

Maxwell Edison II · Sep 30, 2012

Doesn't gnosticism and the idea of the demiurge contrasts with the good and all powerful god of Christianity?

They're certainly two very different fruits on the same tree.

Dagon · Sep 30, 2012

Beedok said:
I think Islam and Christianity have been acting like this from time to time.

But that doesn't work because they worship the exact same god

Beedok · Sep 30, 2012

Dagon said:
But that doesn't work because they worship the exact same god

They can claim the other group is wrong enough to be worshiping something false.

Sevarics · Sep 30, 2012

Finn said:
Is it possible for there to be a situation in which there are two religions from the same source, each worshiping a certain deity while considering the deity the other religion worships to literally be the source of evil? Maybe a schism between two prophets?

So Catharism and Catholicism?

aktarian · Sep 30, 2012

eliphas8 said:
Zoroastrianism and Hinduism could certainly have evolved into this with time, they dont worship the same diety but they are so similar in all other ways that a feud could certainly start if a rival Hindu power to Zoroastrian Persia comes into being.

Well, several creatures have opposite roles (or nature) in separate texts. Though there are more of those that play same role in both faiths.....

M. Adolphe Thiers · Sep 30, 2012

aktarian said:
Well, several creatures have opposite roles (or nature) in separate texts. Though there are more of those that play same role in both faiths.....

Exactly. The Asuras and Daevas roles are reversed in the two faiths. Although Zoroaster had made radical changes to the Ancient Iranian polytheistic beliefs, and the Iranian Heroic Age also distanced themselves from their Indian brethren.

That's the only example I can think of.

eliphas8 · Sep 30, 2012

aktarian said:
Well, several creatures have opposite roles (or nature) in separate texts. Though there are more of those that play same role in both faiths.....

That may be the case but the politics of the region is a pretty important point here, Persia being a serious rival to a major Hindu state could in the long run fray relations with Hindu's in general and cause the differences in the two faiths to become much more stark.

Avitus · Sep 30, 2012

The problem with using Christianity, Islam, or any other Monotheistic faith, with regards to the OP, is that they are just that, Monotheistic. Rival monotheistic groups either believe that the other people are worshipping the same god in the wrong way, or that eachothers god is false alltogether. You would need a religion that believes in at least two gods for one to be the source of good and another to be the source of evil. Keeping Greco-Roman polytheism alive is a good start, since they already often considered the gods to be fighting over the fate of the world. You would need to trim down the pantheont two, or at least show that these two are in a league of their own above the other gods.

aktarian · Sep 30, 2012

Avitus said:
The problem with using Christianity, Islam, or any other Monotheistic faith, with regards to the OP, is that they are just that, Monotheistic. Rival monotheistic groups either believe that the other people are worshipping the same god in the wrong way, or that eachothers god is false alltogether. You would need a religion that believes in at least two gods for one to be the source of good and another to be the source of evil. Keeping Greco-Roman polytheism alive is a good start, since they already often considered the gods to be fighting over the fate of the world. You would need to trim down the pantheont two, or at least show that these two are in a league of their own above the other gods.

The problem I see with Greco-Roman faith for this is that nobody plays the role of evil ones, comparable to Satan/demons in Christianity/Islam. Some gods are just more dickish than others but nobody is pure evil.

Malta · Sep 30, 2012

aktarian said:
The problem I see with Greco-Roman faith for this is that nobody plays the role of evil ones, comparable to Satan/demons in Christianity/Islam. Some gods are just more dickish than others but nobody is pure evil.

Exactly. Modern Media has always made Hades to be this evil bad guy of Ancient Greece but really he wasn't bad or good just the Ruler of the Underworld.

Admiral Brown · Sep 30, 2012

Finn said:
No, Satanism doesn't really count, it's always been a bunch of atheists trolling Christians.

IOTL, maybe, but could it have appeared earlier and become a serious religion?

Avitus · Sep 30, 2012

aktarian said:
The problem I see with Greco-Roman faith for this is that nobody plays the role of evil ones, comparable to Satan/demons in Christianity/Islam. Some gods are just more dickish than others but nobody is pure evil.

Of course, but some people really did hate eachother's patron god, and I think that could possibly evolve. Say two sides in a major conflict rally behind different gods. They both believe in eachother's god, they just don't like that he's supposedly supporting their enemy. If the conflict lasts, this hatred could become a part of the basis for a religion surrounding the conflict between the two gods and their people.

Sevarics · Sep 30, 2012

Avitus said:
Of course, but some people really did hate eachother's patron god, and I think that could possibly evolve. Say two sides in a major conflict rally behind different gods. They both believe in eachother's god, they just don't like that he's supposedly supporting their enemy. If the conflict lasts, this hatred could become a part of the basis for a religion surrounding the conflict between the two gods and their people.

That's not how Greco-Roman polytheism worked, though. Even with the Trojan War story where Apollo favors the Trojans, you don't see Greeks abandoning him.

whitecrow · Sep 30, 2012

Maxwell Edison II said:
Doesn't gnosticism and the idea of the demiurge contrasts with the good and all powerful god of Christianity?

According to some accounts, a Gnostic Christian group/sect called Ophites worshiped Lucifer as a benevolent Promethus-like figure while the Old Testiment God was the evil one in their beliefs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophites

Malta · Sep 30, 2012

Sevarics said:
That's not how Greco-Roman polytheism worked, though. Even with the Trojan War story where Apollo favors the Trojans, you don't see Greeks abandoning him.

The Greeks even considered other gods to be their gods under different names.

From The Golden Ass

You see me here, Lucius, in answer to your prayer. I am nature, the universal Mother, mistress of all the elements, primordial child of time, sovereign of all things spiritual, queen of the dead, queen of the ocean, queen also of the immortals, the single manifestation of all gods and goddesses that are, my nod governs the shining heights of Heavens, the wholesome sea breezes. Though I am worshipped in many aspects, known by countless names ... some know me as Juno, some as Bellona ... the Egyptians who excel in ancient learning and worship call me by my true name...Queen Isis.

Avitus · Sep 30, 2012

Sevarics said:
That's not how Greco-Roman polytheism worked, though. Even with the Trojan War story where Apollo favors the Trojans, you don't see Greeks abandoning him.

I'm not saying it is, I'm just saying that it's a much smaller jump to make than saying that Christianity and Islam could do it with eachother. They didn't abandon Apollo or Aphrodite, but they recognized them as fighting against them. In Abrahamic religions nobody would ever dare recognize themselves as fighting against a god. In Greece, it was possible to fight for one god against another, and that is the basis for my opinion that, given the correct circumstances, it could develop into a dualism between two of the gods. I'd love to see Aphrodite vs Athena, or Ares vs just about anyone.

Malta · Sep 30, 2012

Avitus said:
I'm not saying it is, I'm just saying that it's a much smaller jump to make than saying that Christianity and Islam could do it with eachother. They didn't abandon Apollo or Aphrodite, but they recognized them as fighting against them. In Abrahamic religions nobody would ever dare recognize themselves as fighting against a god. In Greece, it was possible to fight for one god against another, and that is the basis for my opinion that, given the correct circumstances, it could develop into a dualism between two of the gods. I'd love to see Aphrodite vs Athena, or Ares vs just about anyone.

Sure the gods picked sides, but it was on a personal interest level and most important Zeus did not pick any side in the conflict and he ordered both sides to stop they stopped for good.