drinking age stays eighteen

Philip

Donor
None of that is true, nationally. There ARE no national drinking laws.
I never said there are national laws on alcohol. There is, however, some uniformity. Every state in the union regulates the public possession of alcohol by minors.

State by state it depends. Some states allow underage drinking in the home with parents, some don't. And everything in between. A few states allow parents to give their kids alcohol at restaurants.
Nothing in here contradicts anything I wrote. Also note that in the cases you describe, the minor may not be legally in possession of the alcohol. The parent providing the alcohol may be considered to be in possession. In other cases, such as for employees of a restaurant, it may be the employer who is considered to be in possession of the alcohol, not the under-aged server.
 
While we're on the subject of age limits, could someone from the U.S explain something to me?

Why is it that you can(in some states) drive a vehicle at 16, own a gun at 16, but not drink before 21?

Where I'm from(Norway) all three of them are 18, although one can ask for an early permit from the police for a hunting rifle.
 
While we're on the subject of age limits, could someone from the U.S explain something to me?

Why is it that you can(in some states) drive a vehicle at 16, own a gun at 16, but not drink before 21?

Where I'm from(Norway) all three of them are 18, although one can ask for an early permit from the police for a hunting rifle.

Its the USA.
You expect it to make SENSE??? :D:p:D
 
While we're on the subject of age limits, could someone from the U.S explain something to me?

Why is it that you can(in some states) drive a vehicle at 16, own a gun at 16, but not drink before 21?

Where I'm from(Norway) all three of them are 18, although one can ask for an early permit from the police for a hunting rifle.

Neo-prohibitionism on the part of MADD, who has a very influential lobby. Also, if they tried to increase the gun age, the NRA would give holy hell.
 
The problem with the drinking age being lowered meaning less accidents is that its not necessarily true. Around that time, a slew of other safety regulations were put into place. In the case of drinking, correlation =/= causation. And frankly, what good has it done? Kids still drink if they want to drink. They just do so in private, which may have been more dangerous since there's no bartender to take the keys away. Likewise, its not all 18-20 year olds cauising all the drunk driving accidents in the world either.

So, if you keep the drinking age at 18, it may not have more of an impact that to unpucker America's butthole.
 
"Hi kiddo, congratulations on your 16 birthday, here's an m-16 and a convertible, now go outside and have fun with that shit!"

"Gosh, why thanks pa, now that I can both drive and shoot I sure feel like a man. Could we share a beer to celebrate?"

"No chance Lance, giving access to alcohol for a minor would be irresponsible"


Soo, when they do get to 21/18, most of them never having been "properly" intoxicated, doesn't that seem like a recipe for a lot of drunk driving accidents/shootings?
Forgive my ignorance if these statements are false, but it all seems a bit strange to me.
But then again, I'm from Norway, where even though the limit is 18, most kids try drinking at 15-16.
 
People living near the Ontario-US border would hope across to go drinking until they were 19. Though I think they lowered it from 21 at some point, so maybe they would lower it further to get that niche market to stay in Canada.

I went to Windsor w/friends on several occasions when the age went from 18 to 19 (months before I turned 18) and then to 21 a couple years later. Had the age remained 18 the "traffic volume" of Michigan 18-20 year olds crossing the border during the '80s & '90s would likely have been lower.
 
While we're on the subject of age limits, could someone from the U.S explain something to me?

Why is it that you can(in some states) drive a vehicle at 16, own a gun at 16, but not drink before 21?

Where I'm from(Norway) all three of them are 18, although one can ask for an early permit from the police for a hunting rifle.
You can own a gun at 18.
The drinking age matched the voting age (previously 21), went down to 18, then the Religious Right got it back up in Reagan's time.
Driving at 16? Have you seen the size of the U.S. and our public transport? Europe letting drive people at 18 is far crazier than the drinking age being 21.
 
You can own a gun at 18.
The drinking age matched the voting age (previously 21), went down to 18, then the Religious Right got it back up in Reagan's time.
Driving at 16? Have you seen the size of the U.S. and our public transport? Europe letting drive people at 18 is far crazier than the drinking age being 21.

While the Religious Right is a popular punching bag and easy to blame for many things, in this case, the RR was not the driving force behind the change in the drinking age. If you want to place blame, place it on public safety advocates and upon parents of college age young adults (their sons and daughters) who died in alcohol related crashes (either they were driving drunk and/or the driver of the car they were in was drunk). MADD is also given much :mad: here. If you look at the roots of MADD and organizations like it you'll understand more clearly why the movement to raise the drinking age gained traction and support.
 
Well if you want odd, try the UK:

At 16 you can get married, but not vote, drive, or drink. You can see a real naked woman, but not one in a film. You can legally have sex, but not watch a porn film.
At 17 you can get a driving licence.
At 18 you can vote and drink.
At 19 the army can send you abroad.

It gets odder, for some purposes you are considered an independent adult at 18, for others 21 and if you are in full time education in Scotland you are dependent legally on your parents (unless married/living together/civil partnership etc..) until you are 25. :eek:
 
Why isn't it, were the alcohol lobbies just not strong enough?

I could easily see it packaged as 'Raising the drinking age is the first step back to Prohibition, give them an inch they'll take a mile!"

It wasn't worth the "alcohol lobbies" time to fight too hard against it. The brewers and distillers still make a huge profit of the American public even with a drinking age of21. And the Federal government let it be known that it control the Federal Excise tax level on the industry and that level might be up for review if the industry didn't play nice.

The Anti-drinking movement led by MADD (Mother against Drunk Driving) is an amazingly well run and effective lobbying group. Only a fool takes them on. They have political figures in both parties by the balls and those people do just about whatever MADD asks.

And while the other posters are right the isn't a Federal drinking age, it was basically extortion by the Feds that pushed the states to adopt higher age. The Feds do that a lot on policy issue, like for example seat beat laws. If your state doesn't have a primary seat beat law (not wearing a seat belt is enough reason by its self for a traffic stop) your state loses some Federal highways funds. They did the same thing to force states to lower the legal blood alcohol levels. And if MADD has it's way the Feds will soon start pressuring the states to require BAC machines in first time convicted drunk drivers vehicles.
 
While the Religious Right is a popular punching bag and easy to blame for many things, in this case, the RR was not the driving force behind the change in the drinking age. If you want to place blame, place it on public safety advocates and upon parents of college age young adults (their sons and daughters) who died in alcohol related crashes (either they were driving drunk and/or the driver of the car they were in was drunk). MADD is also given much :mad: here. If you look at the roots of MADD and organizations like it you'll understand more clearly why the movement to raise the drinking age gained traction and support.
That's more accurate, but MADD's neo-prohibitionism has strong RR tinges. Forgive me.
 
And if MADD has it's way the Feds will soon start pressuring the states to require BAC machines in first time convicted drunk drivers vehicles.
Those are the breathalyzers where the car won't start if it fails right?

Making them mandatory on all vehicles could be an effective drunk driving solution, and removed the need for any drinking age.

Though hopefully we're getting close to cars that can just drive themselves anyway.
 
I'm so glad I went to college when the drinking age was still 18. I don't know how I'd have gotten through a couple of those semesters without cheap draft beer...
 
"Hi kiddo, congratulations on your 16 birthday, here's an m-16 and a convertible, now go outside and have fun with that shit!"

"Gosh, why thanks pa, now that I can both drive and shoot I sure feel like a man. Could we share a beer to celebrate?"

"No chance Lance, giving access to alcohol for a minor would be irresponsible"


Soo, when they do get to 21/18, most of them never having been "properly" intoxicated, doesn't that seem like a recipe for a lot of drunk driving accidents/shootings?
Forgive my ignorance if these statements are false, but it all seems a bit strange to me.
But then again, I'm from Norway, where even though the limit is 18, most kids try drinking at 15-16.

You forgot:
"Son, if your Dad consents you can join the army at age 17. Without parental consent age 18. You´re mature enough to fight and maybe die for your country. Letting you drink a beer however is out of question. At least in the USA.
Unless of course you´re deployed overseas to a host country with lower drinking age laws. In that case the US armed forces will (normally) follow the laws of the host country. (But still setting the minimum age at 18 I believe.)
So volunteer for a deployment to Europe! :D"

In Germany, it´s 16 for buying (and publicly drinking) beer, wine and sparkling wine. (14 if Teenagers are accompanied by a parent for example in a restaurant.)
It´s 18 for hard liquors.
The law however isn´t that strict concerning non-public drinking.
 
Okay, that is actually a solid argument. Thanks Plumber, now it all makes more sense.

Thanks. There's evidence the drinking age being 21 leads to too much binge drinking in college and actually increases deaths. But either way, the law is broken all the time that it doesn't matter much. A driving limit being 18 OTOH is actually observed and is more significant than the drinking age of 21.

Trust me, bitchy, authoritarian suburban moms are one of the few truly bipartisan things in this country :D

Noted. But MADD was founded in 1980, and the limit was 'raised' in 1984. That's a pretty amazing thing to do without help. I'm pretty sure if even Bush I was President, the thing could've been stopped with a weakened RR to help out MADD. (God I sound like RB with all these abbreviations.)
 
Ich liebe Deutschland

In Germany, it´s 16 for buying (and publicly drinking)

Dude, you are so right. When I was visiting a friend in Germany(a Norwegian student) and he pulled up two beers in front of the police while waiting for the tram I first thought: "what an asshole, now I'm gonna get a ticket".
The cops just smiled and waved.
Your country is truly awesome, except for the whole "mixing coca cola and beer" thing. That' just wrong on so many levels!

But keep in mind that in Norway one can also volunteer for the homeguard at 16, the army at 17 and be shipped overseas at 18. But most officers try to get you to wait until you turn 19, somehow that one year makes your death seem less tragic.
 
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