What was the dowry system like in the 15th and 16th centuries? Was the dowry given lesser or greater depending on whether or not it was the heir to the throne or a lesser son? And also what was given as a dowry? Money? Titles? Or even land?
Counties of Blois, Soissons, Asti; lordships of Coucy. In fact, the revenues and usus rather than the land and titles themselves, from the king. (Incidentally these were the lands that Louis XII had before he set on the throne)Alright so then to continue the Brittany example what was Claude's dowry when she married Francis?
No, that's what I tried to point. Brittany wasn't the dowary because the title or the rule passed to the husband as an usus, and that according the marriage contract should have been trusted not to Francis III (then Dauphin of France) but to his younger brother., with the usus still taken by Francis I.Or was it Brittany itself
That's less a scheme than the diplomatic consequence of the Mad War and Anne union with Louis XII, with Brittany definitely acknowledged Valois influence and had to obtain the agreement of Valois on such unions.since I know that Louis refused to allow the title be passed to Renee after Claude's marriage in order to tie Brittany to France and keep France
Dowry wasn't a price rather than giving, usually, the bride its hold on the common management. Even if technically (and legally) the man had the upper hand, the relationship was more complex and dowaries could be trusted to a widow for exemple.What was the normal bride price for marrying the French and English heirs?
As it's told (but should be checked) by Varillas :Actually while I'm on this topic does anyone know how much Ferdinand paid as Catherine's dowry for her marriage to Arthur?
Counties of Blois, Soissons, Asti; lordships of Coucy. In fact, the revenues and usus rather than the land and titles themselves, from the king.
At this point, Brittany is still the demesne of Anne, not the king or her daughters. Of course, Valois influence on the peninsula was real, but couldn't have legally turned to a dowry.
That said, you miss the point : when it comes to aristocracy you didn't have scale or rule of thumb, but more contextual tractations (arguably it was the case everywhere, but for lower classes, the context was less proteiform allowing then a "standardisation")
I think that, there's as well, it's dependent from the context. Louis XII doesn't have a son to inherit, and Francis of Angoulême being his heir, he tried to make his future early reign as smooth as possible on what mattered these.Was this something that her father had previously decided to give as her dowry or was it dependent on who exactly she was marrying?
I may have been misleading : I meant reduced compared to what may have been possible. 100 000 écus is a really important ammount objectivly but is more comparable to one of the main bishopries of the kingdom rather than a royal marriage.What was the original amount her mother was going to give?
Ah sorry, I meant usufruct.Though I'm not clear on what an usus is a quick google search said that usus means usage, long established rule, custom, practice.
No idea, to be frank. I took informations from Brantôme.Do know where I could see the marriage contract? Though I'm guessing that its probably in French.
It was Henri, right, but there was little doubt the contract would have been disregarded on this matter.How likely was it that the contract would have been followed to the letter when it came to the passing of Brittany to Henri? It was Henri right?
There's no need for that, really.I seem to be apologizing a lot right now.![]()
Catherine? Crap...I think I mixed Claude/Maximilian and Catherine/Ferdinand dowry there...Sorry about it, I should have be more cautious and read more precisely (I don't really know how I managed that, to be honest).And thanks for giving me Catherine's dowry as well. So any more information you can give me about dowries would be appreciated. Don't really know what else to ask about the subject right now.
I think that, there's as well, it's dependent from the context. Louis XII doesn't have a son to inherit, and Francis of Angoulême being his heir, he tried to make his future early reign as smooth as possible on what mattered these.
I meant reduced compared to what may have been possible.
It should be noted that these propositions were made after he agreed with Francois of Angoulême that he shall give Claude to him (so basically, Louis XII was bullshitting Maximilian).
There's no need for that, really.
Apparently, the dower (gave to her, then) was to be 1/3 of the revenues of Wales