Dominion of Southern America - Updated November 29, 2017

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Glen, Feb 22, 2010.

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  1. Falastur Fighting Swiss-wank since 1291

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    Correct. They are the (former) Papal exclaves of Benevento and Pontecorvo - two cities that had a centuries-old link with the Papal States, the former having been sold to the Pope in about the 1080s, and Pontecorvo having requested Papal annexation in the 1470s.
     
  2. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    Your map showed all of it, that's what I was referring to. The distance may be a bit much, true.
     
  3. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    Thank you for that tidbit.
     
  4. Earl_of_Somerset Banned

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    Maybe a dominion of Greater Austrailia, Lesser Austrailia, and Tasmania? Maybe the first could be spilt up into a few groups, and those become with Lesser Austrailia and Tasmania founding states of Oceania. Each is generally self governing. Lesser Austrailia could be compared to DSA's Cuba.

    These are my ideas for the divisons of the Dominions

    DSAD5.png
     
  5. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    While the government supported efforts towards a transcontinental railroad in the DSA and the USA were somewhat slowed by political considerations, the same constraints did not apply to private efforts. Several Southern investors whose fortunes had managed to weather the turmoil of the Slaver Uprising (some of whom had at least sympathized with the Confederationists) saw an opportunity. Their proposed route relied heavily on connecting pre-existing rail lines running alongside the Gulf Coast, and then shooting straight west across the continent along a shortest distance (allowing for terrain route) just north of the border with Mexico to achieve the shortest route possible to San Diego. While it was started later than government efforts and chronically underfunded compared to the other transcontinental projects, it would remain in contention in the Great Transcontinental Railroad Race to the end.

    The planned route (in red) of the Southern Pacific Railway:

    Southern Railroad Route.png
     
  6. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    Nice map - the divisions are a bit premature, but I shall keep them in mind when and if we get to that point. Strong work!
     
  7. Falastur Fighting Swiss-wank since 1291

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    Interesting, but those divisions look very arbitrary. I think that the OTL divisions are probably about the method that would be followed in any circumstances.
     
  8. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    They look a bit artificial, but then again many of the borders of OTL while not arbitrary, are not necessarily clear-cut. We may see a bit of both ITTL.
     
  9. Earl_of_Somerset Banned

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    ill look at a topographic map of austrailia and attempt to improve the map a little, also does South Austrailia's population at the time amount to anything high?
     
  10. Falastur Fighting Swiss-wank since 1291

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    Touche, a good point.

    The population of the whole of Australia (or, the countable ones, so the colonists) in 1850 was about 400,000. South Australia has a decent enough population, the real problem is that north Australia has virtually nothing, and therefore doesn't really deserve its own subdivisions yet, or if it does it only deserves one big subdivision based in Darwin, which is actually located in the area where your territories get a coastline in the north. The three northernmost of those subdivision marked on the map (I'm not counting the deep-red territories because there was no-one there, exception of Darwin, as mentioned...Australia has never had an inland subdivision because of the complete lack of population, for the record) would probably have had a settler population of under 1,000, and of the remaining southern two the southernmost one of them would probably have about 3/4 of the population of Australia to itself. Overall, I'm just not convinced Australia has a big enough population to start being divided up yet. Also, of course, it should be remembered that that 400,000 does include some settlers in what is now French Australia, and also with the continued presence of a humid British colony in southern North America, Australia's immigration is probably just a little bit down on OTL numbers anyway (I can't remember what Glen has said on Australian immigration).
     
  11. Earl_of_Somerset Banned

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    Here is my Second attempt, I changed the Dominion of Oceania's Borders to reflect where more of the population is, however with this said, these divisions would be a time later as the current population needs to rise. (We need a certian Potatoe Famine :cool: to increase immigration)

    DSAD5.png
     
  12. Nugax talks in diagrams

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    @Earl of Somerset: those australian borders are the worst :)

    @Glen - did you not get the redone rail map I PM'd you?
     
  13. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    I can't find any redone rail map in my PM box, Nugax.
     
  14. Sovereign12 Well-Known Member

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    If there is a potato famine. Plus the British government of TTL is slightly different from OT because of the length of time from the POD. While I'm sure many of the laws restricting Irish rights may still be in place, the government may actually heed the call for helping out the Irish people.

    Besides, if there is a famine, more Irish may move to the CSA than Oceania in TTL. It is a shorter trip, meaning cheaper to pay transport. The same could be said for the trip to British Patagonia. The USA is also larger and many would go there still.

    I see Oceania as having the lowest amount of emigration to its shores. It will be more of a penal colony than OT. Yet, I don't think it will just be the Irish being shipped to Oceania. I could see all the British controlled territories using it to ship off their criminally undesirable. Whether of European decent, African, Indian or the Americas it just might be easier to ship the so called disruptive elements to the most isolated place on Earth at the time. This would make the future culture of Oceania quite interesting and if you add in the possibility that there would be a higher presence of British troops in Greater Australia, due to the French controlling a portion it, may make this place a powder keg more so than OTL.
     
  15. stevep Member

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    I think some sort of crisis is virtually inevitable because of the system with so much dependent on a single crop with a pretty low level of genetic diversity.

    The key thing will the British reaction would be the nature of the government in London. Would they largely be working on laisse-faire as OTL Liberals or more interventionist as the Tories were at the start of the crisis. In the latter things might be resolved with far less deaths and suffering, at least in the short term as it would stop some of the market fluctuation that caused a lot of the problem. It would also make more government intervention likely rather than the reliance on public charity and on local landowners in Ireland, which deepened the rift between them and the ordinary people.

    The other factor would be how completely and quickly London realised the size and nature of the problem. I did read in one source that when the 1st reports came out an agricultural organisation in Dublin was approached and reported there was no problem. This was because the type of potato they were growing, in the dryer eastern provinces was fine but the type grown by the ordinary peasant in the western western and southern provinces was rotting in the field. This sort of mistake meant time was lost as the magnitude of the problem was mis-read.

    Very true on all accounts. I think there would still be a move to Australia as OTL but other locations are likely to get more people [Britain, N America and possibly Patagonia]. Not sure if any numbers went to S Africa as that would appear to be another option but can't remember reading about any/many going there.

    Probably largely true but there will be growing settlement as farms take off and also when gold is discovered that will be a big boost. Also with the French in Australia and N Zealand you can expect a greater military presence, which will attract some traders and possibly also more efforts to encourage more settlers to secure the regions Britain controls.

    Steve
     
  16. Sovereign12 Well-Known Member

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    That would be interesting to see; greater Irish influence on Afrikaners. May end up having an even greater hatred for the British than the Afrikaners of OTL.
     
  17. Earl_of_Somerset Banned

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    YOU, make a proposal then :mad:
     
  18. eschaton Muckraker & Rabblerouser

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    Here's my own attempt for Australian provinces. I decided to go with primarily river basins rather than straight lines. I assume the northern territories of both the British and the French will remain territories for a long time yet.

    water_basin.PNG
     
  19. Earl_of_Somerset Banned

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    Here is my attempt to put that map on the world scale.

    DSAD6.png
     
  20. Falastur Fighting Swiss-wank since 1291

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    That's probably my favourite map so far, but I'm still not convinced by ideas that TTL Australia, with arguably fewer colonists and less attention from London, would in fact end up with more subdivisions. I would argue that less provinces is the far more likely result. I would speculate that something like this is more likely:

    [​IMG]