Dominion of Southern America - Updated November 29, 2017

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Glen, Feb 22, 2010.

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  1. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    [​IMG]
    Canton factories

    The British had no more ended their war in the Western Hemisphere when a new conflict threatened across the world in the Eastern Hemisphere. China had been a major target for trade for the Western powers for a long time, but the West had little to offer the Middle Kingdom. So the British East India Company resorted to supplementing their trade with opium, which they shipped through to China by circuitous routes once the Chinese Emperor forbade its open trade at the factories of Canton, the only place foreigners were allowed to trade with Chinese in Qing China. However, the combination of a further crack-down on opium smuggling by Chinese officials under the leadership of Lin Zexu and the strain on British funds by the Slaver Uprising put China and Britain on a collision course resulting in 1840 in the Opium War.
    [​IMG]

    The well blooded, modern navy that had won against Confederationist forces just a few years before tore through the Chinese War Junks like rice paper, demonstrating in an undeniable manner that China had slipped behind the West in prowess.

    [​IMG]

    The war lasted only a year before the Chinese were forced to come to terms. Britain was able to break the monopolies and open up trade directly with the Chinese, have right to learn the Chinese language, gained Hong Kong as a British base, but ironically, no definite agreement could be made on the opium issue, which was left for another day.
     
  2. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    As more states entered the Union with the growth of the old Northwest Territory, it became clear that adding further stripes to the flag would become impractical at some point. Therefore Congress approved a reversion of the flag back to a twelve stripe format to represent the original twelve colonies, while the stars would continue to increase as new states were added to the United States of America.

    An example of an American flag during the twenty state phase of American History:

    1000px-US_flag_20_stars.svg.png
     
  3. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    Different. Think about what we've already learned. There's more of the 'rebel' South under self rule than OTL, but provinces have actually been carved up (as opposed to most states remaining intact OTL). You will see how things play out over time.
     
  4. Plumber جعل أميركا أكبر مرة أخرى

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    Keep up the good work! :D

    I wonder who will become the first PM of the DSA... a small part of me thinks it will be Thomas Cochrane, a small part of me thinks it will be John Brown, and a large part of me thinks that I am completely wrong.

    Updated map, now with subdivisions of relevant areas. In BSA, areas with responsible government are shaded appropriately, and areas under military occupation are shaded with the OTL territory of dominions color, to highlight their lower status. The territories of the USA are probably off in some areas.
    DominionofSouthernAmerica.png

    DominionofSouthernAmerica.png
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2010
  5. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    True, but that's a lot of people to secure support from!

    Well, yes and no. The loyalist planters will likely convert to share-cropping with only minimal difficulty. However, I'm not too certain that the British will engage in land confiscation. However, the rebel planters will be at a major disadvantage economically none-the-less....
     
  6. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    That is all fairly good points. Yes, Cotton will likely remain King for quite some time.

    Ah, you forget that state pride is almost as much of a factor as national pride, especially in this era. There's a nice rivalry between Boston and Halifax, for example.

    Do you have any specific references on this?
    ** He that owns the Gold - Makes the Rules.

    *** Industrial in this case.

    Interesting classification. Look away, Dixieland?:rolleyes:

    Ah, so this generation would go back to the Plantation House, you're suggesting?
     
  7. The Doctor Well-Known Member

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    I'm a little behind in the reading, but I'm wondering that since the defeat of this failed revolution against Britain, is it possible for some of the far western portions to defect to the United States?
     
  8. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    It's probably slightly more industrialized than OTL South (sans Virginia), but not by much to speak of, at least at this point. Cotton was so lucrative, it made more sense to invest in growing more to make the money to afford imports than to develop an internal market. The USA ITTL, on the other hand, is even further along in industrialization since they endorsed it and didn't have to fight the Cotton lobby on protectionism.
     
  9. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    King George the Fifth of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland (and King of Hanover) was born in 1796, the only child of the then Prince Regent and future King George the Fourth and Caroline of Brunswick. George IV's marriage was an unhappy one from the beginning, as was George V's strict upbringing. Yet King George the Fifth showed a resilience and intellect that reminded old time observers more of a young George III than his father. When his father died in 1830, it was one of the final straws that kicked off the Reform Revolution in Great Britain. After his coronation, George V gradually began to side with Commons against the obstructionism of the House of Lords. The nation was on the verge of a true revolution when King George V broke the deadlock by flooding the House of Lords with new pro-reform peers.

    Coronation of King George V:
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Falastur Fighting Swiss-wank since 1291

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    Why would they? The far western parts claimed by Texas at present probably have an Anglo population measurable by a 3 or 4 digit number, and with barely any government. In addition, the Texan factions, owing to the fact that Texas was largely colonised by British Southerners rather than Americans, favoured independence and only a small and defeated faction actually wanted to come into union with the USA. The vast majority may not have favoured Texas being annexed by the UK (although some did) but I doubt there were many who would make any attempt at defection; they would just be smacked down by the majority population who were against. For any areas to defect to the north it would essentially require a charismatic figure with a private army to essentially filibuster a territory away, and that would mean war.
     
  11. Falastur Fighting Swiss-wank since 1291

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    Now this is interesting. I guess we have to view this as you attempting to veer completely away from Victorianism?
     
  12. stevep Member

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    Falastur, Glen

    Agreed. Definitely very interesting. There is the problem with the comparison that George III was pretty autocratic in his early years but a king strongly supporting reform could change a lot. The fact he actually produced so many new reforming lords would be a big bonus.

    Coupled with the reforms in BSA and obviously many of people in Britain will want at least as much this could go a long way to making Britain markedly more reformist compared to OTL. Especially if this echo's into avoiding the mistakes with education OTL you could see a much, much stronger Britain.:D

    Steve
     
  13. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    Very good points, steve.

    All good points as well, though don't discount British investment in America. If anything, this USA is looking more stable and prosperous than OTL, so that is bound to attract investment interest.

    There may be some of that. Time will tell.

    It is indeed possible that we will see more investment in the South spurred on in part by the Cotton industry and interests in developing the West. A transcontinental railway would definitely be a thought....
     
  14. Arachnid Arachnid once more.

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    On factor to consider in the development of the British West is climate. Just as in OTL not many people wanted to live in Texas, Arizona and New Mexico until air conditioning simply because it was so hot and uncomfortable.
     
  15. DuQuense Commisioned Officer CSN

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    OTL the Texicans proposed [pre war] to build from Galavston north to Dallas-East to New Orleans and west thru Fort Worth to Santa Fe .
    After the War this all got added in to the Southern Pacific.
    Also OTL the orriginal Terminus was to be San Deigo, Till the LA people pulled a fast one. ITTL, with British Control the terinus remains SD, and due to water concerns LA remains a Small Desert Town.
    I expect the US to build the Northern Pacific, from Chicago to Seattle [or Portand???] with N/S spurs, long before any Central Pacific, or Trans Canada RR.

    Love to see a Great Trans Continental Rail Race.
     
  16. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    You are both correct, of course. Thanks for the comments.
     
  17. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    Very nice map, but if you're going to color the sections differently, I might suggest that you make the responsible government provinces the same color as dominions in UCS, and keep the ones under military rule just British empire color. Might want to do something different than the white borders to show that New Mexico and California are under Texan administration, not sure what, though (british color with dominion outline?). Yes, the borders for American California Oregon and that strange one crossing the Missouri (what is that?) are off. The states themselves look pretty good, though I need to figure out when the analogue of Iowa gets statehood (probably should be before TTL's Michigan (ie Wisconsin plus UP).

    I'd show a bit more of Patagonia as British at this point, and we probably ought to retcon Australia to show less clear British presence to match (still need to flesh that out, though, so don't leap to change yet).

    Overall fabulous work, Plumber. You really ought to showcase it in the Map thread as well!
     
  18. DuQuense Commisioned Officer CSN

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    1880's~ 1900's

    ?I'm wondering if British control of California/Baja will mean more Asiatics on the West Coast?
    ?And what more Japanese in Baja would mean to the Pearl Industry?
     
  19. Falastur Fighting Swiss-wank since 1291

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    Circa comments about Australia being behind OTL, is there any chance the British have still organised the New Zealand declaration of independence? I fear there's a tendency to delay Australasian development, and I fear that that tendency will allow the French time to nip in and get our loyalest colony first :(
     
  20. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    Possible, yes. Probable...not for the far west. The British already have ships on the coast, and the Texans have been reaffirmed in their control of the far west with British backing as part of the Empire, and they have a route scouted that is traversible year-round.