Dominion of Southern America - Updated July 1, 2018

Glen

Moderator
Sort of from North to South...

As good of an approach as any....

Especially with the British looking towards Antarctica, there are only three Nations to split up the Arctic: the USA, Scandinavia and Russia,

Ah, noticed that, did you? And Scandinavia and Russia aren't exactly on good terms at the moment....

which is about the minimum that I can imagine occuring in the absence of a world controlling single power.

Yep. There may be more who try, but those will be the big three shooting for the North Pole.

Is Hokaido that color due to being part of Qing China (that's the area north of Korea right?) or due to being a Japanese "Colony"?

Neither. Ezochi (Hokkaido) is now considered technically independent but in fact is in the sphere of influence of Russia. The color is white, with a Russian green edge. You are correct that the area north of Korea is Qing China.

Additional "color" question, Austria & Greece?

Similar colors, but independent of each other.

In square mileage under control, I *think* the order goes Russia, USA, Ottoman, UK, but with the poles expanded, the Ottomans could be larger than the USA.

Well, if you count Antarctica....:rolleyes: Did you mean the British instead of Ottomans?

Let's play everyone's favorite ATL game of the late 19th century and early 20th, "Who gets Spanish Pacific posessions?" :) (or are they strong enough ITTL?)

Actually the Spanish enjoyed something of a resurgence in the latter 19th century. Someone could take them from them, but it wouldn't be as easy as in OTL.

Yes, the British get Antarctica, but using the OTL Brazilian "frontage" idea (All of Antarctica goes to whatever country is immediately north of that), the *Mexicans* or the Americans would have the second best claim.

That's a bit of a jump. There are a few big countries (at least land-wise) between Mexico and the US, such as New Granada, UPSA, and even the rump Brazil of TTL.
 
I'm wondering something, is the UPSA considered a great power or not.

Actually thinking about it can we have a list of the nations that are considered being great powers? I know Britian, America, france and (I assume anyway) Russia but what are the other great powers?
 
Hey Glen, I was just looking at that world map and I was wondering, do Britain and the Ottomans share a border on the Horn, or does Ethiopia have access to the port of Djibouti? Even if he did, I imagine it would be about as practical as using Mogadishu due to the Afar triple junction. Also, how did Ethiopia escape feudalism? Was it the same centralization as happened under Tewodros and Menelik II? Did Shewa and all the OTL characters play a role, or was it just analogues?
 
As good of an approach as any....



Ah, noticed that, did you? And Scandinavia and Russia aren't exactly on good terms at the moment....



Yep. There may be more who try, but those will be the big three shooting for the North Pole.



Neither. Ezochi (Hokkaido) is now considered technically independent but in fact is in the sphere of influence of Russia. The color is white, with a Russian green edge. You are correct that the area north of Korea is Qing China.



Similar colors, but independent of each other.



Well, if you count Antarctica....:rolleyes: Did you mean the British instead of Ottomans?



Actually the Spanish enjoyed something of a resurgence in the latter 19th century. Someone could take them from them, but it wouldn't be as easy as in OTL.



That's a bit of a jump. There are a few big countries (at least land-wise) between Mexico and the US, such as New Granada, UPSA, and even the rump Brazil of TTL.

And given the Global War, my bet is that the USA is definitely on Scandinavia's side in any dispute with the Russians (do the Russians have *any* friends right now?). While the USA and Scandinavia may have a dispute over the same islands that Canada and Denmark(Greenland) do in OTL, they haven't shot at each other recently.

Surprised nobody was able to take Hokaido away from the Russians during the active fighting in the Global War.

No I meant Ottoman. But if Antarctica is big enough maybe the UK is number 2. (would love to see stats) It does lead to the question of what the equivalent of a 21st century United Nations would want the British to do with Antarctica.

Hmm, out of the Western Powers, is anyone on particularly bad terms with the Spanish? And without Hawaii, I don't think the USA in the mix.

True, they are closer, but there are certainly longitudes where the next thing south of the Mexican shoreline is Antarctica (see http://bigthink.com/strange-maps/207-antarctica-but-sliced-differently)
 

iddt3

Donor
hmm, might we see a joint US/UK/Southern space program? one interesting effect of a relatively less powerful USA might be more Anglo sphere cooperation, especially as TTL US seems to lack good launch sites of it's own.
 
hmm, might we see a joint US/UK/Southern space program? one interesting effect of a relatively less powerful USA might be more Anglo sphere cooperation, especially as TTL US seems to lack good launch sites of it's own.


that's an interesting possibility, especially when you consider how much friendlier TTL USA's history with the empire has been.
 
hmm, might we see a joint US/UK/Southern space program? one interesting effect of a relatively less powerful USA might be more Anglo sphere cooperation, especially as TTL US seems to lack good launch sites of it's own.

No, the US is fine. In OTL, there is Wallops Flight Facility which is on the Atlantic side of the Virginia portion of the Delmarva. The US used it for many things including launching some of the Mercury Capsules before they put astronauts in them. And when you consider that the OTL Soviets/Russian launch site in Kazakhstan is at the same Latitude as Nova Scotia, having one in Virginia isn't too bad.

And even with the advances of the Global War, I think we're still looking at 50 years away, a lot of things can change by then...
 
Great TL here. By the ways, why is Gray Island (Vancouver Island in OTL) a lighter shade of blue? I do believe it is a small mistake in the map.
 
Last edited:

Glen

Moderator
I'm looking at the maps, and I'm wondering why the states in the midwest are so oddly shaped. TTL Mississippi does have Iowa's originally proposed borders, but does this timeline have no Samuel F Vinton arguing for more Jeffersonian borders, i.e., more equally sized states? That's part of the reason we have state stacks of 3° in height (Kansas, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota) and 4° (Wyoming, Colorado, Montana).

As a matter of fact, this timeline does not have Samuel S Vinton. He was born decades after the initial point of divergence and born in America wanted had already hit. However, I would argue that most of the American states are actually closer to being equally size that in our timeline at the same period in history. Just think of the large states of Texas and California! Now then the states are somewhat differently shaped compared our timeline. In this timeline people aren't as obsessed with having box shaped states with no order relations to natural geography.

Would this "Jacques" state even have enough resources to be self-sufficient?

I believe that it would.

And why would there be so many states named for Presidents in this timeline? It was distinctly avoided OTL, with the one exception of Washington, named for the first President.

This United States has a different Zeitgeist then the one from our timeline. It becomes in fashion she name states after the presidents who acquired the territory by about 6070 years after the initial point of divergence. I think that is certainly possible and makes for a more interesting map.

I enjoy the level of detail here, though some of the states' borders seem a bit unique to this timeline.

I am glad that you enjoyed the level of detail, we certainly put a lot of work into it. As for the states shapes yes they are rather unique to my timeline. But doesn't every time I need to have its own little quirks?:)
 
What are the capitals of the states in this TL? I would guess this TL's capital of Minnesota would be at Duluth or St. Cloud.

Now that is a very good question - I might need to devote an update to it.

Might be interesting to have many* of the states, at least those named after a President, to have their capitals named or renamed after the VP that was elected with that particular President.

* I couldn't see all the states changing the name of their capitals, but it would be interesting.
 
No, the US is fine. In OTL, there is Wallops Flight Facility which is on the Atlantic side of the Virginia portion of the Delmarva. The US used it for many things including launching some of the Mercury Capsules before they put astronauts in them. And when you consider that the OTL Soviets/Russian launch site in Kazakhstan is at the same Latitude as Nova Scotia, having one in Virginia isn't too bad.

And even with the advances of the Global War, I think we're still looking at 50 years away, a lot of things can change by then...

Yeah, Wallops is a decent spot to throw down a launch facility - also worth noting that various portions of the Grao Para coastline are likely to end up held by foreign powers, which could wind up using them as launch sites many, many decades after the rubber boom.

And a space race is a good theater for relatively peaceful competition between the United States and the Commonwealth - I could see it evolving into a jocular national rivalry that would be awfully fun to write.
 
Yeah, Wallops is a decent spot to throw down a launch facility - also worth noting that various portions of the Grao Para coastline are likely to end up held by foreign powers, which could wind up using them as launch sites many, many decades after the rubber boom.

And a space race is a good theater for relatively peaceful competition between the United States and the Commonwealth - I could see it evolving into a jocular national rivalry that would be awfully fun to write.

Or possibly even for co-operation against other rivals?

Steve
 

Glen

Moderator
I'm wondering something, is the UPSA considered a great power or not.

Considered more a power than a great power - it has significant regional power, but does not project globally.

Actually thinking about it can we have a list of the nations that are considered being great powers? I know Britian, America, france and (I assume anyway) Russia but what are the other great powers?

A list would be appropriate. I will have to whip one up as an update some time soon.
 

Glen

Moderator
Hey Glen, I was just looking at that world map and I was wondering, do Britain and the Ottomans share a border on the Horn, or does Ethiopia have access to the port of Djibouti? Even if he did, I imagine it would be about as practical as using Mogadishu due to the Afar triple junction. Also, how did Ethiopia escape feudalism? Was it the same centralization as happened under Tewodros and Menelik II? Did Shewa and all the OTL characters play a role, or was it just analogues?

Ottomans and British share a border and that port - Ethiopia will use Mogadishu. The development of Ethiopia also deserves its own update.
 
BUMP for an update (perhaps we can see what's going on in Ethiopia's neck of the woods?). Also, a handful of little questions;

1) AFAIK the demonym for DSA-ers is just "Southron" or Southerner. However, how would one say this in, say, Spanish? "Sureño" is just too vague a term to use for a national moniker in that language, much as how "Americano" is for Americans apparently :)rolleyes:). Perhaps something like "norsureño" (North-Southerner), or "surdominioneses" (South Dominion-ish)?

2) What's going on with Japan currently? I can't remember how large their role was in the Great War, much less where that leaves them currently on a national level.

3) From a technical standpoint, how advanced are aircraft compared to OTL? With an earlier Great War, would there have been similar lessons learned in terms of aviation warfare for future designs to develop in a recognisable fashion?

Anyway, keep up the good work!
 
BUMP for an update (perhaps we can see what's going on in Ethiopia's neck of the woods?). Also, a handful of little questions;

1) AFAIK the demonym for DSA-ers is just "Southron" or Southerner. However, how would one say this in, say, Spanish? "Sureño" is just too vague a term to use for a national moniker in that language, much as how "Americano" is for Americans apparently :)rolleyes:). Perhaps something like "norsureño" (North-Southerner), or "surdominioneses" (South Dominion-ish)?

It would likely be, estadounidense or norteamericano for US Americans, and I guess surdominenses, which you sugest, could work for the Dominion.

Alternatively angloamericano could be used, or even sudamericano if iberoamericano becomes the common moniker for South Americans and Iberoamerica for the continent in Spanish. This last one makes the most sense to me.

As Glen has pointed out all this might sound confusing for us, but the folks living in the TL have likely figured it out and and may even use some terms alternatively without thinking much.

Also gringo in TTL likely refers to Southrons, while yanqui would be used for Americans. The latter would be a much friendlier term since in TTL the US would have messed a lot less with the region.
 
Glad to come back to this TL. Hey Glen, is there any chance you might tackle the development of the auto industry one of these days? I've got some ideas if you're interested. :D
 
...Alternatively angloamericano could be used, or even sudamericano if iberoamericano becomes the common moniker for South Americans and Iberoamerica for the continent in Spanish. This last one makes the most sense to me.

I'd agree with this as well, but then again the whole "Americano= somebody from every New World country, not just the USA" attitude present in many Latin American countries really sticks in my craw, so YMMV.

I also have to wonder whether there's a greater sense of "provincial citizenship" to parallel OTL's States Rights attitude; in other words, a tendency to identify more strongly as an Indianan/Georgian/Abionian/etc. in addition to, or instead of, a Southron. Hopefully that made sense :eek:.
 
Top