Dominion of Southern America - Updated November 29, 2017

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Glen, Feb 22, 2010.

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  1. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    The Chuen Emperor and the reformed Imperial Bureocracy are actually quite popular in the north. The USC would be occupiers.
     
  2. teg The Worst Unionist

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    That raises the possibility that China will never reunify and instead the three nations will develop quite seperate ideologies. Would be a nice change to have a powerful but divided China for once instead of superpower or massive balkanization.

    teg
     
  3. stevep Member

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    teg

    Possible but doubtful I suspect. It has such a strong sense of identity as a centralised national state. Rome had a similar identity, but then had Christianity to divide it and then the occupation of the southern and eastern parts of the empire by Islam and the ideal of a reunified empire still lingered for centuries.

    Steve
     
  4. Sovereign12 Well-Known Member

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    Ideology alone could keep them seperate. Neither nation has had the political ideology/governmental form forced upon them, they each chose it as a the best for them at the time, even if it caused conflict at that time. The way Glen has been writing te updates I get the impression of specific identies(nationalities/racial otherness) emerging. Qing, Manchurian, and USC seem to have strong identities building to keep them seperate.
     
  5. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    Actually, I believe the South was reasonably populated.

    Well, some, but they recovered well.

    Well, both times invading into Chuen would be costly, and for questionable gains.

    Think of Chuen as Canada and USC as the USA.:rolleyes:
     
  6. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    Not really - that was a generation ago.

    I believe this is correct.

    And that is correct, Steve.
     
  7. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    Those are very interesting thoughts you have there. I agree it would be a more interesting way. Time will tell of course.
     
  8. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    Remember that there has been several periods in history when 'China' was composed of two or more independent nations or states. I do not think that there always has to be 'one' China. However, there may come a time when it coalesces again, as that has been a trend in history.
     
  9. stevep Member

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    Glen

    Possibly I was taking a much longer view than teg. There have been periods of fairly prolonged disorder, and the latter halves of many dynasties had the unity being more symbolic than actual. However since the Han I don't think there has been a period of more than a generation or so without theoretical union, other than times when a sizeable section of the country was under a foreign invader. Could be wrong but I think that the desire for re-unification is something that both states will have to pay a lot of lip service to at least.

    Steve
     
  10. Beedok I exist.

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    There was the period from around 300 CE to 589 CE that had the Sixteen Kingdoms, then the Southern and Northern Dynasties, and later the period from about 900 CE to the Mongolian conquest in the 1200s that had the Song, Liao and others. Though I don't know if some of those periods were theoretically united or not.
     
  11. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    It is a combination of ideology and ethnicity,yes. It is not absolute differences but enough to e distinctive.
     
  12. stevep Member

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    Beedok

    Were the earlier disruptions that long? Obviously forgetting too much. :eek: However with the Liao wasn't that basically a northern invader who occupied the north until they were in turn stomped by the Mongols?

    Steve
     
  13. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    What Beedok sad -note that Qing Manchria fits the Northern invader mold. And the North and South have been under other dynasties in the past. But time will tell.
     
  14. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    I should have said said!
     
  15. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    The Revenge of the Royal Navy refers to the pitched battle that took place in the Sea of Japan between the Russian Pacific Fleet and a newly assembled Royal Navy Far East Fleet. The stakes were nothing less than control of land of Japan. The Royal Navy, who had been bloodied by Russian innovation, now returned the favor, battering the Russians to flinders. The British bolstered Imperial Japanese Army then was left to roll up the Tokugawa forces on Honshu, who over the years had been increasingly stretched in terms of supplies doled out by their Russian patrons. The death of the last Tokugawa Shogun in the Battle of Edo broke the will of their forces, and Honshu was brought under the Imperial banner, which in turn enjoyed the protection of the United Kingdom. However, what battered forces remained retreated as best they could to Ezochi, to join the Ainu there. The Emperor, in rememberance of the blood spilled in the long battle for reunification of Honshu, added a blood red fringe to the Imperial Flag.
    [​IMG]
     
  16. Iserlohn The Undefeated.

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    Good to hear that the war in the east is also going well. So I assume Ezo/Ezochi/Hokkaido remains Russian or a Russian puppet?
     
  17. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    At least for the foreseeable future.
     
  18. stevep Member

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    Glen

    What is the rough split in Hokkaido between Japanese, Ainu and probably also Russian settlers, soldiers officers etc? Just wondering if it might end up lost to Japan totally?

    Steve
     
  19. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    Majority are Ainu (and there are actually more of them at this point than IOTL due to better support from the Russians - hey, they're not all bad!).

    There is a sizeable 'Japanese' minority, many who are involved in commerce, as well as a last influx of Tokugawa loyalist refugees.

    There is a Russian presence, though this is the smallest on the island. They are mostly officials, traders, and of course in recent times, military.
     
  20. stevep Member

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    Glen

    Interesting. I didn't realise they had been so numerous so late.

    Steve