Dominion of Southern America - Updated November 29, 2017

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Glen, Feb 22, 2010.

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  1. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    Tokugawa Japanese and Ainu under their Russian patrons launched an offensive against Imperial Japan in the Spring of 1889 as part of the greater strife engulfing the world. Initially the Shogunate forces under their Russian advisors pushed deep into Imperial Japan, eventually taking Kyoto, but not before the Imperial Court was evacuated by Imperial Japanese forces and a unit of Ghurkas rotating through the British garrison. The Shogunate forces received heavy casualties, however, requiring a halt in the advance to redress their lines and await reinforcements. The Imperial Japanese forces and the British used the time to create a strong defense.

    The Russian Pacific Navy did not engage at this time, leaving the British Fleet in the region uncontested. However, night-time shipments of men and material from the Russian Far East and Russian influenced Manchuria often made landfall in the Islands evading interdiction.
     
  2. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    Thanks and thanks.

    I can understand. I tend to paint in broad brush-strokes especially when we are this far out from the POD than intricacies, unless its something really fun for me or really necessary to establish a twist. Sometimes I fill in the blanks after at least laying out the initial path, depending on time and my ideas of the moment for moving forward. Any and all suggestions as to what type of details would be likely and/or desired will be taken seriously, of course, though no promises.;)
     
  3. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    Thanks!

    Here, both Russia and Austria-Hungary have been allies of Prussia (then Prussia-Poland) for over a generation. They have benefited from cross-training with the Prussians. They are still second-rate compared to Prussia-Poland, but I would say they are somewhat better than they were OTL in this same time period.

    Well, Korsgaardian nations.:)

    It will, but they can't mount a large force initially. It will take time for them to mobilize.

    Thanks!

    It's okay - a reminder now and then isn't a bad thing. Hmmm, let me see....
     
  4. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    War fever seemed to be spreading by the Fall of 1889. Few could predict how events in Europe may impact the balance of power in the Far East. The Chuen Chinese were, locally, surrounded by potential enemies. Tsarist Russia to the North, and their puppets in Manchuria to the West, the United States of China to the South and their ally Korea also to the West. Also eyed with lingering paranoia were the British in their various Asian outposts. However, it seems likely that two factors swayed Chuen China to enter the widening war. First was the advice of their military advisors from Prussia-Poland. The second was the perceived relative weakness of the USC compared to Russia in the north. If Chuen China could reunite the Chinese people, it would stand a far greater chance in a future conflict with Russia, or so the reasoning in the Imperial Court went. Sweetening the pot was the fact that Russia was willing to make a number of border concessions and ship supplies to Chuen China in return for them favoring the Russians in the conflict (Russia didn't want the Chuen to turn to the allies and open yet another front on the war). There was also the third factor of the disturbance the Chuen felt from the South and their decadent Western Liberal notions, that despite the Imperial Court's best attempts to stem, had continued to leak into Chuen China proper, threatening to corrupt the youth of the nation. And so, in that fateful Fall of 1889, the Chuen launched their attack on the United States of China, claiming that it was the will of the Chinese people and the Mandate of Heaven that the Chinese nation be reunited under the Chuen Dynasty.
     
  5. thekingsguard Founder of Korsgaardianism

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    May the USC never fall to those Imperial devils!
     
  6. Tsao Banned

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    Who are the current leaders of the USC?
     
  7. Arachnid Arachnid once more.

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    Just how stable is Chuen China? Are it's institution deep with near universal support or shallow, also how stable is the U.S.C.
     
  8. stevep Member

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    Glen

    So we have a big rumble in China as well. One good thing about this is that given its relations with the USC it will hopefully keep the USA neutral or friendly to the allies. Was worried about the DSA ending up in a potentially hostile sandwich.

    I get the feeling this will end badly for Chuen China, especially if they end up having to accept direct Russian military support.

    Aren't Manchuria and Korea to the NE and east of Chuen China rather than the west?

     
  9. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    More or less, yes.
     
  10. Emperor-of-New-Zealand Least-Known Member Monthly Donor

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    Will an 1880's great war see the early demise of the colonial empires? Given that OTL's WWI set that into motion, and by the sounds of wasn't nearly as widespread.
     
  11. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    Hmmm, maybe to the electric Gatling. Glad to have you reading, DQ. Too few of us Mosaic Earth folks still around. Your comments as always are much appreciated!:cool:
     
  12. Falastur Fighting Swiss-wank since 1291

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    There are far too many factors that existed in OTL that don't exist here. Besides, WW1's main commitment to decolonialism was to make the European empires so hard on cash that they couldn't afford to keep their empires running. It was WW2 that really caused decolonialism, unless you count WW1's causing WW2 as a reason to attribute everything from the one on the other.
     
  13. Emperor-of-New-Zealand Least-Known Member Monthly Donor

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    Well, my thinking was that there's no reason this war won't be just as costly, if not more costly.
     
  14. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    As part of the Korsgaardista agenda on gaining power in Mexico launched a rapid military expansion, fueled by governmental 'persuasion' of businesses to accept credit from the government as well as generous if covert aide from fellow Korsgaardist nations in Europe. Mexico made no attempt to join the battleship club as many other nations had, instead choosing to invest in heavy coastal defenses as well as the cheap and easily manufacture Shark Ships. Really more boats than ships, these small, fast, but poorly defended vessels were designed to launch the self propelled bombs (sharks) were capable with their sharks of sinking much larger ships, even potentially battleships. While many established navies scoffed at the smaller vessels, the Mexicans were gambling that they would provide a defense that while meager on the surface, would cost a naval aggressor dearly.

    As the Eastern powers further modernized their arsenal, much of the surplus found its way to Mexico in shipments of 'farm equipment'. One of the better kept secrets of the Korsgaardian regimes was the depth of the relationship with Mexico. Mexico's leadership eyed with avarice the former lands of Mexico to the North, now part of the Dominion of Southern America. The largest barrier to Mexican action against the Dominion of course was the Royal Navy. However, the war in Europe and the Far East brought saw a relative decrease in the British navy's presence in North American waters, felt relatively 'safe'. Mexico did nothing to disabuse Britain of that notion, at first. In like fashion, the launch of Mexico into the war on the side of the Eastern powers was timed for the late Fall, when most nations were used to a refrain from pitched war activities. Yet that is when the invasion of Texas was begun.
     
  15. sudfamsci theoretical weapons specialist

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    oh no:eek: how much of the DSA troops where sent over to Europe? what is the USA's views on DSA? would they consider join in on ether side? or will they stay neutral? by the time this is answered i want to already know:mad::p also is DSA mostly Anglican/Episcopal? or did the deist win out?
     
  16. iddt3 Herald of the New Board Donor

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    Does this USA even have any real military traditions? It's managed to avoid the major wars that shaped the early US, though up until WWII the US had to basically relearn how to fight after each war, so that possibly isn't as big as it seems. It would be facinating to see a USA that never fights any real wars in it's entire history.
     
  17. thekingsguard Founder of Korsgaardianism

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    And shit just got real...

    On the otherhand, the DSA may expand south after this. Perhapsw get the final bit of the Rio Grande North Coast
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2011
  18. stevep Member

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    Guys

    I think the Mexican Korsgaardist have just made a serious error. Suspect that the DSA outweighs them in both population and industrial might. Also while some troops may have gone to Europe its probably likely that there is a substantial number still training and war industries building up. Also I suspect the liberal DSA will not welcome Korsgaardits centralisation and militarism.

    It will cause problems, especially if the Mexico shark boats do prove initially successful but the main barrier to invasion won't be the RN but the population of the DSA. Also, it depends on the situation in Europe but I suspect that the home country can spare at least some troops to help defend their oldest and most important dependency.

    The only problem would be if the US has a sudden imperialist outbreak but barring something stupid that seems highly unlikely. They don't have claims on DSA territory and with the exception of a small number of characters are more inclined to the liberal bloc than the more militaristic and centralist Korsgaarders. Furthermore you could see US opinion turning strongly against Mexico for bringing the war to N America and for what sounds like a sneak attack on a friendly neighbour.

    Steve
     
  19. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    And now you know.

    It's a gamble, indeed - but if the Central powers win, they will be gaining some very valuable real estate long term, and they will have proven themselves one of the 'powers'. This is about prestige and machismo as much as realpolitik. None of the nations really know what they are getting themselves into. War fever is spreading across a globe that has known only small and medium scale conflicts for a long time.
     
  20. stevep Member

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    Glen

    I don't know. Presuming the central powers [or would eastern powers be more accurate?] win that will be on the continent but is unlikely to be at sea. As such even if the continent is lost they can't aid Mexico and even if Mexico made progress against the DSA Britain can support the latter.

    Even if the eastern powers win decisively enough that they are able and willing to commit to Mexico making gains at the peace it means prolonged enmity between Mexico and the DSA/Britain and I wouldn't like to be trying to organise Mexico's defences in the following generation.

    Steve