Dominion of Southern America - Updated July 1, 2018

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Glen, Feb 22, 2010.

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  1. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    True - but it's the entire island that needs to switch, and if anything there are more slaves in the east than the west of the island, and the slave owners, as they were not in rebellion, get compensation from the British which they can use to invest in renovation or new enterprises.

    True, but then again, there is still work to be done, just now on a more even playing field (not even, just more even).

    See above.

    I disagree - certainly no more 'shitty' than anywhere else in OTL's British Caribbean at the time (and in fact may be a bit better off since they had a sort of two stage emancipation).

    Now which 'Haitians' and which 'east' are we talking about?:confused:

    Some will undoubtably move, and undoubtably it will not be as easy to profit from plantations as pre-slavery, but there will be investment in the island and there will be those who stay. Land is land, and much of the plantation owners will find ways to adapt to the new reality.
     
  2. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    A good point - actually, I can see a lot of upper class Hispaniolans spending 'the season' in the city, and the balance of their remaining time on their private estates.
     
  3. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    Stories of the Wild West were told in both the USA and the DSA, but they often diverged from each other in what characteristics were celebrated and themes promoted.

    A classic example is the real life story of outlaw Robert Pruitt, which was fictionalized on both sides of the border, but in different ways.

    In the United States of America, The Downfall of the Pruitt Gang was one of the first Wild West tales to be sensationalized. It's protagonist was former Legion cavalryman turned marshall, Albert Lee, who was order to end cross-border raids into the then unorganized Plains Territory from British Arkansas. Lee, his trusty sidekick Jacque Lebeau, and his deputies fought off wild animals and wild Indians during the hunting down of the Pruitt Gang. They finally capturing some of the gang during an attempted robbery of a stagecoach, one about which Marshall Lee had created a rumor that it was carrying a payroll. When Robert Pruitt and his remaining gang sought to break out their fellow members, they were defeated in the now famous gunfight with Marshall Lee. Albert Lee would have several other stories written based on his exploits in the Legion and those as a marshall after the Pruitt Gang Gunfight, but this remained his most popular tale.
    [​IMG]
    In the Dominion of Southern America, The Ballad of Bobby Pruitt was a very different story (in fact, it was both a story and a popular song). It actually starts during the Southern Civil War, when the the three Pruitt brothers served in the Confederationist army as raiders, fighting in Louisiana and Arkansas. Pruitt's Raiders, named after their leader, eldest brother George Pruitt, were one of the most successful raider units of the war. The tale tells that the troubles of the Pruitts began during one of their last raids of the war on a Loyalist plantation. During the fighting the elderly black nanny of the family was fatally shot, but didn't die before pronouncing a curse on the whole Pruitt family. While Pruitt's Raiders were one of the most successful raider units of the war, the war was lost already. During their last engagement of the war, George was killed, and the middle brother, Robert Pruitt, swore at his brother's hastily dug grave to never give up the fight and never give in to the British and their Loyalist toadies. Robert 'Bobby' Pruitt would lead his raiders and his younger brother Earl into outlawry in Texas and Arkansas. They were seen as romantic figures as often as outlaws by the people of the region. Eventually, Southern Royal Mounted Ranger Samuel Smith was charged with bringing in the Pruitts, an irony since he had married their sister Sarah. Ranger Smith saw it as his duty to bring the Brothers to justice. While hunting the Pruitts, who had no idea who was leading the Rangers, the Pruitt Gang staged an ambush in which Sam Smith was wounded before both sides realized the reality. When the Pruitts saw that they were gunning down their own brother-in-law, they broke off the engagement and ran. Even wounded, Ranger Smith pursued them, nearly cutting off their escape across the border into the USA. Smith held his men at the border, and the Pruitts met him there, swearing they'd not return to their home if it meant they'd draw the blood of kin again.

    The Pruitt Gang survived as outlaws in the USA for a time before being ambushed during a stagecoach robbery by US Marshals, and in the fight Earl Pruitt was wounded and captured. Compelled by family honor, Bobby Pruitt told his remaining men that he would only take volunteers on a forelorn mission to rescue his brother, for which all volunteered. The Pruitts almost succeeded, but in the end both Bobby and Earl were killed in the fight for freedom, supposedly bringing to a conclusion the curse, though some variants of the story swear that their ghosts still ride the praire.
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    Last edited: Jan 29, 2011
  4. thekingsguard Founder of Korsgaardianism

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    We're glad you are pleased with the results of your Turtledove placements, but don't sell yourself short! This has as much to do with your abilities as it does our support!
     
  5. thekingsguard Founder of Korsgaardianism

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    Also, I am looking forward to seeing more of these tales of the Wild West!
     
  6. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    Thank you on both counts!
     
  7. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    The allure of a canal at the Suez Peninsula had existed since Napoleon. However, it took the combination of the Entente Cordiale, Liberal War, and the Sepoy Uprising to spur the British Empire to negotiate with the Ottoman Empire for the construction of a canal between the Mediterranean and the Red Sea. While relations between the Ottomans and the British had been stained over the Hellene War of Liberation, the British and the Ottomans now had common cause in the containment of Russia and Austria. Therefore, in 1859 the Anglo-Ottoman Canal Company was formed. The canal was thought to be a multi decade project initially, but when surveying showed that no locks would be needed for the canal, and construction was completed in less than ten years. In 1868, the Suez Canal began operations.
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Earl_of_Somerset Banned

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    Finally we got the Canal!

    I wonder if the Panama Canal will also be built (or if in a new location)

    This should be VERY intereseting if the British and Ottomans go to war
     
  9. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    A few years behind and with different cast of characters, but yeah.

    One might imagine so.

    And wouldn't it have always?

    A couple things to note - the changes that Mohammed Ali would have made to Egypt IOTL he made to the entire Ottoman Empire ITTL (more modernized along European lines, especially the army). Neither Egypt nor the Ottoman Empire are in crazy debt like what happened IOTL. Oh, and Egypt never really got into the cotton business as deeply as IOTL.
     
  10. Earl_of_Somerset Banned

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    Dominion of Southern America TL:Risk Game

    I made a Risk Map for the DSA World to celebrate almost reaching 2,000 Comments.

    It also helps that I was bored and had nothing better to do:rolleyes:

    Anyway tell me what you think

    DSA risk map.png
     
  11. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    Very fun, but you should consider showing a separate Germany, Prussia, and Austria.

    Also consider showing Hokkaido as part of Russian Far East.
     
  12. Earl_of_Somerset Banned

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    I tired that, but there was a Ton of text bungled up

    I will do that
     
  13. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    As you say...
     
  14. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    [​IMG]
    The first documented use of exploding shells against naval vessels was during the Siege of New Orleans in the Slaver Uprising, when General Jackson introduced their use against the Royal Navy. While they did not change the outcome of that war, they did given naval planners much to think about with regard to how to counteract such attacks.
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    The United States of America were one of the first nations to start adopting iron armor on ships of the line. This was in part due to their close proximity and thus keen interest in the Slaver Uprising, and in part due to their limited access to Southern Live Oak which made for such excellent wooden ships due to its hardness. The USS Enterprise was the first American ship of the line to have a fully ironclad hull. This started the British Admiralty seriously thinking about iron armored ships, and they countered with the HMS Agamemnon. Ships without iron armor and up-gunned to take on armored opponents would prove obsolete in the few naval skirmishes of the Liberal War (indeed, the obvious superiority of the British and French ships, who were ahead of all but the Russians on these innovations, may have been a major factor for limiting the Eastern Powers' use of naval forces in the war).
    [​IMG]
     
  15. stevep Member

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    :confused: OTL it was opened in 1869 wasn't it so it's still a year ahead of that?

    But presumably it would be British/DSA in TTL. Location would be important but also the timing would probably depend on knowledge of infection and disease development.


    :D

    That could make for some big butterflies. Probably a markedly stronger Ottoman state, unless and until national identities and desire for greater democracy starts causing problems. How much is it still an autocratic system or have there been any reforms to allow popular input?

    Does Ali's presence in the capital mean that the Egyptians haven't done their slave incursions deep into what became the Sudan? That could have a big effect on developments in that region, possibly good if it keeps the Arabs further north. Also presumably by this time Britain is putting pressure on powers to end slavery and the trade which will probably mean greater RN presence in the region?

    Steve
     
  16. Falastur Fighting Swiss-wank since 1291

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    I wonder, does the US actually have the economic capability to engage in the Ironclad Race which they have just started? Or are they going to rapidly run short of cash for it after plating 5 or 10 ships, as many navies in Europe did?
     
  17. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    My mistake - oddly on time given that it was a completely different geopolitical situation that drove it's creation.

    Presumably...
    That might help, but maybe not so much.

     
  18. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    They in fact do having a fair amount of cash from the various Gold Rushes and all the food they sell south of the border to the DSA.
     
  19. Arachnid Arachnid once more.

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    Just how much food is the USA selling South, large chunks of the DSA are not suitable for plantation agriculture: e.g. most of Texas and are presumably growing food. That said the USA has much more wheat land than the DSA, so I would expect the food trade to going in both directions, e.g. Iowan wheat for Texan beef.
     
  20. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    A lot. What land can be used to grow cotton (or sugar) pretty much is being used for that purpose - the cash crops are profitable enough that it is more economical for the DSA to import the vast majority of their food supply. The large chunks of the DSA that aren't suitable for plantation agriculture may be used for other food production, but that land won't be high yield for foodstuffs now. Beef and mutton is certainly one use for such land and is going on. The other use is growing perishables for local use if they can't be shipped fast enough to avoid spoilage.