Dominion of Southern America - Updated July 1, 2018

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Glen, Feb 22, 2010.

Tags:
  1. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Maybe. Again, this is a question for later years - we're still dealing with Democrats vs. Federals!
     
  2. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    And that could happen here.

    Costa del Moskito is now a state of Mexico.:cool:
     
  3. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    It probably will be less socially conservative, this is true.
     
  4. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    The South was much less homogenous as you suggest here. Heck, West Virginia seceded! Talk about divisions!

    The Democrats are agrarian and states' rights. The Federalists are industrial and for a strong federal government.

    Well, yes - for now. We still have a about 150 years to go through - a lot can happen in that time!

    Good point. The Federalists have been traditionally pro-British, so they will favor strengthening ties with the DSA. The Democrats will want to strengthen ties to Mexico as a counterweight to the DSA, I suspect.

    Yep - basically Britain divested of Central American Caribbean Coast holdings in return for access to the Pacific, if not territory.
     
  5. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
  6. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    German immigration to the United States in the first half of the 19th century was driven by war, religious dissent, and political oppression.

    [​IMG]

    While there had always been healthy immigration to the United States of Germans (mostly Protestant) prior to the 19th century, it saw a significant upswing in this turmultuous period. First spurred by the chaos of the Napoleonic Wars, the Congress of Vienna only ended open warfare, but may have actually exacerbated the tensions in the region, especially in the West of the new German Confederation. This was first exemplified by the Wartburg Festival in 1817, which called for German Unity, but many there also called for the liberalization of such a new German state. Metternich would use this and other incidents to cajole the members of the Confederation to increase censorship and political oppression against the liberal opposition.

    [​IMG]

    The next major event was the Cologne Uprising of 1833. Rhineland-Westphalia had been granted to the Prussians in the Congress of Vienna, including conglomeration of small states and free cities such as Cologne. The Uprising began as another festival, in homage to the Wartburg Festival. In this case, it was not just a call for a liberal German nation, but the admission of Rhineland-Westphalia to such a new nation as state indepedent of Prussia. The protesters at Cologne were inspired by their neighbors to the West in France, Belgique, and the Netherlands, as well as as the Reform Revolution in the United Kingdom (in Personal Union with their neighbor to the North, Hanover). There was also a religous friction element in Rhineland-Westphalia's conflict with Prussia, as the Rhinelanders were predominantly Catholic whereas the Prussians were Protestant. The troops loyal to Prussia who attempted to break up the festival triggered a riot and weeks of violence in the province. Riots broke out in several cities of the German Confederation in solidarity with them. However, the joint forces of Prussia and Austria were able to bolster the local forces in these hotspots and crush resistance before France or the United Kingdom could interfere.

    Further oppression followed for the next decade, which when coupled by intermittant crop failures led to an increase in Germans seeking freedom and fortune in America. For the first time Catholic Germans made up a significant minority of the immigrants to the USA, but German migration still remained predominantly Protestant.

    While the loss of the Germanies was America's gain, the Festivals and Uprisings would not be forgotten at home.
     
  7. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Well, I know that New Orleans is the Capital for Louisiana, and Austin is the Capital of Texas (but is Austin in the same place as OTL Austin?...can't recall, need to take a look...).
     
  8. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Well, I'm guessing that TTL's Austin (named for Moses Austin) is roughly in the same locale as OTL's Austin (named after Stephen Austin).
     
  9. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Ah, Carleton's first capital is Mulberry (site of OTL's Knoxville, TN). Note that the Tennessee River is called the Cherokee River ITTL as well...
     
  10. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Ah, and here is the capital of Indiana, basically OTL's Tuscaloosa.
     
  11. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Capitals of the Provinces of the Dominion:

    Bermuda - St. George's Town
    North Carolina - New Bern
    South Carolina - Charleston
    Georgia - Savannah
    East Florida - St. AugustineBahamas - Nassau
    Cuba - Havana
    Richport - St. John's
    Jamaica - Spanish Town
    West Florida - Pensacola
    Indiana - Tuscaloosa
    Carleton - MulberryArkansas - Petite Roche
    Louisiana - New Orleans
    Texas - Austin

    Territorial Administrative Centers:
    New Mexico - Santa Fe
    British California - San Diego

    I'd like to put links to the OTL sites wikipedia entries here as well as a map of the DSA with the Provincial and Territorial Capitals listed. But before we do the map, I need to write the entry for the Federal Capital of the Dominion...
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2010
  12. Eurofed Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2009
    Well, for that matter it is perfectly possible that in TTL USA, the First Party System endures up to modern times. TTL Federalists seem to have avoided the fatal mistake of the A&S L, and this USA lacks the sectional tensions that drove many of the changes in the pre-ACW party system. The social tensions of the *Gilded Age may still cause the rise of the *Populist/*Progressive equivalents, and they may or may not get entrenched as a third party, or replace the Dems or the Feds, but this is far from guaranteed.
     
  13. Eurofed Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2009
    Perhaps, although even if the USA and the UK/DSA trust Mexico enough to let it keep sovreignty of the Canals, a la Suez, I surely expect that they would go for nothing less than a permanent concession that gives them ownership of the Canals themselves.

    And I still expect both the Nicaragua Canal and the Panama Canal to be built, one by UK/DSA and the other by the USA. To expect both great powers to trust both Mexico and each other as to put all their eggs in a single canal under Mexican sovreignty IMO seems too much trust.
     
  14. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    All of the above are true - and of course the parties didn't have to deal with a man as polarizing as Andrew Jackson!:eek::)
     
  15. Eurofed Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2009
    That, too, is quite true. :D
     
  16. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Yes indeed. Instead, Jackson helped shatter the antebellum British South...:cool:
     
  17. Eurofed Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2009
    Given that it ushered in the early demise of the slaveocracy, the rise of the DSA, and the BSA-Texas union, I would say that everything went for the better. ;)
     
  18. Julius Vogel So

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2008
    Good to see this has roared back to life at the previous high level of quality
     
  19. Eurofed Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2009
    Glen, given that apparently in the USA, the First Party System thrives merrily and is going to do so at least up to the Gilded Age, what do we know about the party system in the DSA, in the aftershock of the Slaver Rebellion and formation of the Dominion ?? Parallels and differences would be most interesting.
     
  20. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    The debate over the location for the new Capital of the Dominion of Southern America was a heated one. While the strongest bastions of Loyalism had been in the interior and the north, these regions were less accessible to the rest of the Dominion and especially to London. On the other hand, the coastal regions of the mainland had been some of the most active in rebellion, presumably due to the large amount of the cotton trade that passed through the ports and the many plantations in the regions. On the other hand, enough Loyalists were in those regions (and backed by British regulars) to make these more accessible options viable. A location central to the DSA in general but accessible to sea and rail was most desired. Among the finalists for the location for the capital was a new city to be constructed along the Texas/Louisiana border (Texas needed to be accessible but many other DSA feared Texan dominance if the capital was placed there), New Orleans (gateway to the Mississippi) in Louisiana, Mobile in West Florida, and Pensacola in West Florida. However, the prevailing wisdom was that the location should not also be a provincial capital, provide ready access to the interior, west and east, and Caribbean, and that it should be relatively secure from fear of flooding. In the end, the location of Baton Rouge in West Florida was chosen to be the new Capital. Both West Florida and Louisiana contributed territory to establish the new Dominion's Capital.

    DSA Capital.gif