Dominion of Southern America - Updated July 1, 2018

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Glen, Feb 22, 2010.

Tags:
  1. IchBinDieKaiser Casual Historian

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Location:
    California
    Than you should get working on that.
     
  2. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    But not by much.

    It is definitely a hinderance, but the West has the industrial might to make the change more quickly then the East could have done - and they will change during the course of the war.
     
  3. Sovereign12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2006
    Location:
    Mostly in deep recesses of my mind.
    The interesting thing about having the airships powered by steam engines is the possiblity of having emergency "replacement" airbags in case the ones filled with hydrogen (helium?) become ruptured. Extra bags could be stored and the steam vented to the bags to fill them. The water condesate would drip down the inner bag and could be rerouted to the steam engines again.

    http://www.ehow.com/info_10026891_steam-balloon-project.html

    I couldn't see this used to continue combat, but more as a means to get the airship back to friendly territory for repair.
     
  4. Iserlohn Amateur Cartographer

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Location:
    County of Mark
    Suddenly airships.

    Oh how much potential this post has! As IchBinDieKaiser said: There needs to be a Roosevelt piloting one in a badass fashin. With the family being in the region near NYC since the 1640s this should be no problem ;)
     
  5. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Yes, they will - whether they are decisively defeated or not is indeed the issue - as you have seen, the Eastern powers fell just short of the knockout punch they wanted early in the war.
     
  6. Mac Gregor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    cool update
     
  7. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    An interesting point - the East does have stockpiles that they placed aside as they knew they were going to war, but yes, if it goes beyond what they anticipated, it will grow quite painful for them.
     
  8. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    The political parties of the 19th century Dominion of Southern America differed from the home country of Britain. Perhaps due to the influence of politics as delineated in other parts of North America, the parties of the DSA tended to fall roughly along an axis that was based on the degree of centralization that was promulgated by the party (or coalition).

    The most centralized party of the Dominion was the Imperial Party, often referred to as Tories. The Imperial Party had as it's touchstone loyalty to the British Empire and the Monarch. Founded by Empire Loyalists, the party was the strongest in the early days of the Dominion. One could summarize the policies of the Imperial Party as, "What's good for the British Empire is good for the South." The Dominion's black population tended to vote pure Imperial Party, seeing it as the best protection of their freedoms within the Dominion.

    On the opposite end of the political spectrum was a political force that was so anti-centralist it wasn't even a formal party, but a coalition of provincial parties, thus their moniker of the Provincial Coalition. The provincial coalition rose to prominance in Dominion level politics several years after the founding of the DSA to challenge the prominance of the Imperial Party. While their reputation as 'tamed rebels' is perhaps unjustified, it is true that many of the most prominant members of the early coalition were reformed Confederationists or at least those who held themselves aloof from the Southern Rebellion. The fact of the matter, though, was that there were strong currents in Southern society that sought more autonomy and the right of the Provinces to oversee their own citizenry. While their politics could vary wildly from each other in the details in their home Provinces, at the Dominion level they formed a somewhat united voting block devoted to preventing any growth in power at the federal level, and reserving power whenever and wherever possible for the Provinces. Interestingly, there was a strong Indiana contingent to the Provincial Coalition, who wished to see their autonomy preserved as much as any of the other provinces.

    While the aforementioned two power blocks were to dominate politics in the Dominion during the course of the 19th century, there was a third power block, the Dominion Party, that was influential beyond its size. A 'middle-of-the-road' party, it took as its goal strengthening the Dominion, and thus favored more autonomy from the British Empire, while at the same time promoting greater powers and oversight over the Provinces. Often in coalition with the Imperialist Party for the sake of governance, on some votes it sided with the Provincials (free trade with the USA, for example).

    During the initial outbreak of the Global War, both the Provincial Coalition and the Dominion Party did not wish to be pulled into the European conflict, though the Imperial Party actively advocated support for Britain, including sponsoring volunteer companies to be sent to fight. Of course, when the South itself was invaded by Korsgaardist Mexico, the blood of every Southerner was stirred and rallied to the defense of the Dominion.

    DEFEND THE DOMINION!
     
  9. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    No one expects the Lovecraftian PM! That is one of the British Empire's chief weapons; that and a near-fanatical devotion to the Empress Elizabeth!;) :cool:
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2011
  10. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Well, the alternate timeline family members of famous writers becoming powerful politicians at least - thank you for your support!
     
  11. teg The Worst Unionist

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2009
    Location:
    Aberystwyth
    Could we please have a map of the current frontlines Glen. That would be awesome. This tl is great and still going strong.

    happy new year everyone

    teg
     
  12. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    The earliest use of railways in war may have been during the Southern Civil War, though this was only a taste of their importance to war in the 19th century. During the Liberal War, railways proved their worth in rapidly moving troops to the front, and neither the East nor the West would forget this for the Global War. Thus were designs for armoured steam locomotives developed by the armies of the world, to serve in roles as diverse as delivery of needed supplies and troop transport to the front to mobile artillery support. While only a small number of trains used in 1889 were of the armoured variety, by 1890 they were more and more in evidence as the lines solidified and trains to the front could expect barrages from the opposing lines (which of course could also knock out rails, but the trains were such larger, more inviting targets, that often the rails were left intact in order to entice the trains into range for potential destruction). The West's employment of the Air Whales such as the famed Orca class Airship further encouraged the East to use armoured trains to avoid destruction from above. These armoured locomotives proved remarkably resilient and became a favorite of the front line generals, always demanding more be built and deployed.

    A Sampling of Armoured Steam Locomotives from Early and Later in the Global War

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2011
  13. Origins Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    I think I see a small typo there.
     
  14. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Doh! Fixed!! Thanks!!!
     
  15. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Thank you, thank you! You can just imagine the rhetoric he uses against the Eastern powers....

    As noted by others, while you are right that they won't be completely blockaded, there still will be difficulties - and only so much can be imported from the Pacific, even under the best of circumstances.
     
  16. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    This will not be available to the Eastern Powers at this time.

    Their facilities are better slightly than what you would have expected for their OTL correlates at this time in history, but not enough to compensate, I agree.

    They socked it away throughout the 70s and 80s, so they have significant stockpiles already at the onset of the war, but not good access to new sources once those run out.

    There will be a trickle from the invading forces of the New Granadians from seized sources in the UPSA, smuggled out at night - while the British are mighty, they can't cover all that coast.

    It is there, which in and of itself is an advancement - I probably should add an update addressing that. Still difficult, however.

    No, there is another....

    IIRC, saltpetre can still be used for the creation of smokeless gunpowder. And you maybe are giving another reason why the Russians would want to get a foothold in India?:rolleyes:

    True, that.

    The Western Powers are actually quite behind on this for the first part of the war, first as they did not in fact stockpile much, not expecting to go to war, and the supplies they did have were all already converted to gunpowder (the smoky type) at the onset of the war, and thus the conversion to smokeless gunpowder in the midst of the war requires time. The invasion by the New Granadians of the UPSA complicates their access to the largest easiest source for them, though they are still receiving shipments.

    The Eastern Powers who have been plotting revenge for a long time are thus much better prepared initially, and recognizing their lack of available sources and the likelihood of having problems with shipping due to the British Royal Navy, really stocked up on nitrites, even in raw form, and convert earlier to smokeless gunpowder (though this too slows them). On the other hand, they were looking for a one-two knock out punch and to be out of the war by 1890, so going beyond 1890, they are going to be seeing problems unless they can seize new sources, fast....
     
  17. Nugax talks in diagrams

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2008
    Location:
    London's sludgy aorta
    Its not a case of footholds in India Glen, saltpeter production was an India wide activity (since its made from peoples shit) enabled by the British economic control and aggregation, and concentrated in the North-East.
     
  18. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    See my previous comments on this, but you are in essence correct, Nugax (though there are some mitigating factors).
     
  19. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    You are, by and large, correct. However, the early sea battle was hoped to clear out the indigenous German fleet and make way for shore bombardments in support of the invasion of Germany. The British and French would have come in eventually, but they were hoping for a strike before they were in place, and in fact they did - but they weren't fast enough for the Scandinavians to join in, which was a surprise.

    The French Navy is actually smaller than OTL due to their more friendly relations with the British for most of the 19th century. While smaller, I would actually argue they are better ship for ship than the OTL French Navy.

    However, both the British and the French were moving the majority of their assets to assist the Ottomans when the war widened. They didn't know that the Eastern Powers would open the German front up so quickly, despite their own intel. They fully expected them to concentrate on the Ottomans before opening more fronts.

    It's more complicated than that. You might be surprised at how much subs can do, but the fact is no one has them in sufficient numbers to really make a huge difference except in specific instances (like the Ottoman use of them in another post).
     
  20. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Yep.

    Sorta.

    Could be, could be....