Dominion of Southern America - Updated July 1, 2018

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Glen, Feb 22, 2010.

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  1. scholar Banned

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    A war aim is just another way of saying a War Objective. Its not so much that they would succeed, that's not my objection, its that they would even try to do that.
     
  2. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    Despite the hyperbole of the KPA's presidential campaign and the newspapers' accounts of the 'Korsgaardian wave sweeping the world', the U.S. Presidential Election of 1888 was anticlimatic. While the Korsgaardian Party of America did set a new record since the Federalist/High Federalist splity of the last century for third party candidates at 7%, they still did not take a single electoral vote through election (though one faithless elector did cast a vote for the KPA candidate). However, many of the same platform issues such as protectionism did benefit the mainstream Federalist Party who won the Presidency. Federalist candidate Alexander Poe (of the Baltimore Poes) was sworn in in 1889.

    A Somewhat Anachronistic Statue Of President Poe
    [​IMG]
     
  3. SpazzReflex Induce vomiting if contacted

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    ....aww! *Poe, but happy!
    I hope America stays Isolationist. I find it so cliche when America comes out of Isolation for no apparent reason, into War which are less justified than OTL's WWI.

    Now that I think about it, what other Non-political figures in TTL are politicians, and vice versa?
     
  4. Iserlohn Amateur Cartographer

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    And an old Poe. When he is born in the same year as OTL he would be 80 years old by the time he is elected. That would make him the oldest elected US president ever.

    Still, Poe as a more happy man is something positive. Guess someone else must become the father of short stories then.

    EDIT: You just specified it as him being part of the Baltimore Poes. So that means that guy who looks like Edgar Allan Poe is actually a younger relative of his (common ancestor)?
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2011
  5. stevep Member

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    Guys

    On the Balkan partition line being aimed at by the eastern powers I suspect its mainly religious in basis. Other than the Romanians, which Russia needs to have land access to the other regions pretty much the Catholic lands go to Austria and the Orthodox to Russia. Given Austria's other large gains in S Germany and Italy that would seem reasonable. Would be interesting to know what the reactions of the Poles would be to the planned expansion of Prupol [love that abbreviation:)] which would leave them a pretty small minority in an overwhelmingly German state.

    Do agree they are rather unrealistic. Can't see, if the western powers are so heavily defeated as this would suggest, that France escapes without some losses. Although as said it would be difficult to get any territory from Britain as I can't see its naval dominance being threatened.

    Is Scandinavia in the western alliance? Presumably it soon will be as the easterners plan to carve chunks out of it. Also do the easterners have any overseas colonies as they aren't likely to last long.

    Not sure how things are compared to OTL but if economic/industrial development is pretty much as with us fighting with be heavy, especially in Germany, but the west should will decisively as they simply have too much industrial strength. [Probably also financial and technological as well].

    Steve
     
  6. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    Oh, I like it! We have to figure out somewhere to put that - say, you should add that to Alternate History Quotes!

    One could say the USA has a fairly strong centrist political philosophy - though others might classify it as liberal.:)
     
  7. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    [​IMG]

    The Western Powers had, since the 1840s, preferred the lever action for their military rifles. There were several reasons for this. The first and most important in the minds of military planners was the faster rate of fire achievable with the lever action (of particular importance to the British who prided themselves on the so-called 'mad minute'). The second favorable point was that recruits were often familiar with lever actions from hunting prior to joining the army. The third advantage was that the lever actions were essentially 'ambidextrous' and able to be fired left or right handed equally well (making it easier for left handed shooters, but also easier to fire off hand should a soldier be wounded in their dominant hand).

    The Eastern Powers, on the other hand, even from the time of the Liberal War, had preferred the bolt action for military rifles. The eastern procurers of armaments liked the ease of firing bolt actions from the prone position, as well as the ease of attaching a box magazine to bolt actions, whereas many lever actions were designed with tubular magazines that were less favored as they limited the total number of bullets held compared to other magazines and were trickier to have balance properly.

    This dichotomy remained up to the beginning of war in Europe in 1889.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    Well, time will tell what develops....
     
  9. stevep Member

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    Glen

    Whatever that means as it can be a fairly flexible term. ;)

    Steve
     
  10. Arachnid Arachnid once more.

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    Well the Eastern powers betting on bolt actions has certainly given them a nice advantage, that might even up the odds somewhat.
     
  11. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    Probably - we will see where the currents of history take this timeline.
     
  12. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    The development of nitrocotton in the 1840s had given hope to many for the development of a smokeless gunpowder, but had proven too difficult to work with. While other attempts were made during and immediately after the Liberal War, none came to fruition. Only one year prior to the outbreak of hostilities in the Balkans, in 1888, a number of scientists serrendipitously made breakthroughs allowing for a more stable form of explosive capable of being formed into a nearly smokeless gunpowder. Smokeless gunpowder avoided the telltale plumes of smoke that both gave away positions and after time obscured the field of battle. It did this by converting almost entirely to gases with ignition. This also provided a higher rate of acceleration and thus cartridges could be smaller, allowing more to be loaded and carried. There was also less fouling of barrels with the new gunpowder. The Prussian-Poles and Russians started converting over to smokeless gunpowder rifles immediately, with the Austro-Hungarians not far behind. The bolt action design of Eastern rifles were able to handle the greater pressure demands of the new ammunition and their conversion was a more rapid one. The Western powers were more cautious in their own conversion, introducing some new rifles with the new ammunition, these copying the bolt action of the East. While the first battles in 1889 were fought primarily with black powder rifles, the proportion of black powder to smokeless gunpowder would change over the course of the war.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. SpazzReflex Induce vomiting if contacted

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    So while The Western Powers have a traditional advantage of having great navies and OTL luck, the Eastern Powers have a tech advantage.
    I see the war going like this: The Eastern Powers overwhelm the Western Powers with Technology, but have an edge in espionage. Later, as the Westies adopt newer technology, The Easters are sent on the run in a WWII like scenario.
     
  14. Cyrano Well-Known Member

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    Huh, and smokeless gunpowder enters the world a bit late of schedule. The use of lever-action guns by the Western Powers could prove to be a major disadvantage if this war devolves into trench warfare, particularly if they fail to adopt the Eastern weaponry quickly.
     
  15. stevep Member

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    it sounds like the western powers will take a nasty battering early on. Hopefully they aren't decisively defeated and can adjust quickly after the initial shocks.

    Steve
     
  16. Nugax talks in diagrams

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    In the medium to long run the eastern powers are going to run out of gunpowder since at this time the nitrates all come from overseas (that the West will lock down), and local manure beds are both insufficient to demand and diverting resources needed for agriculture. At some point the eastern advance is just going to die.
     
  17. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    As 1889 brought one victory after another from the Eastern onslaught, the British government reformed itself into a naitonal unity government. Surprising some was the annointment of the prominant Liberal M.P. from Exeter, Arthur Wellesley Lovecraft, as the Prime Minister for the wartime government. Though well respected by both his own party and the Conservatives, his relative youth was seen as a bar. However, his fiery diatribes in the House of Commons and incendiary opinion pieces, even before the onset of the war, against Korsgaardian dehumanization in favor of the cyclopean state and the perfidity of the Eastern potentates had made him appear the man most capable of rallying the nation.

    A. W. Lovecraft
    [​IMG]
    Prime Minister of the British Empire
     
  18. Turquoise Blue Blossoming Tibby! Donor

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    PRIME MINISTER LOVECRAFT! That was UNEXPECTED!
     
  19. IchBinDieKaiser Casual Historian

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    Famous writers becoming Powerful politicians... I love you.
     
  20. Cyrano Well-Known Member

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    ALL HAIL PM CTHULU!!! lol, that was as unexpected as it was brilliant. :D

    Not necessarily, even in WWI the Allied powers had a hard time COMPLETELY blockading that Central Alliance, I imagine a good twenty years earlier it will be even more difficuly, particularly with Russia operating on the side of the Korsgaardians. Russia is particularly important here, as its participation in the alliance means that the Western powers have no chance at all of closing the asian markets to them. Trade in the Pacific will be even harder to restrict, given TTL's U.S.'s continued nuetrality and Russia's permenant warm ports via Manchuria. I actually imagine the Eastern powers will be able to maintain a relatively stable level of trade throughout the war.