that's an good idea also I think it's okay to split up the irish category
Dominion of America: An Alternate Timeline
- Thread starter Gabingston
- Start date
that's an good idea also I think it's okay to split up the irish category
To add on to this, how much of North America is French speaking depends on how much French immigration comes to the Dominion, and how much French immigration the British allow. France was in a really bad spot pre-revolution in OTL, and since the point of divergence is in 1776 this obviously wouldn't change. How much French immigration do you think the British would allow into the Dominion (keep in mind that the vast majority would go to already French-speaking regions)?
It would probably be about the same as OTL, mainly Québécois, Acadians, Cajuns, and some other groups. Based on where they live in the USA, I'd imagine most living in Maine (which may or may not be a part of Massachusetts ITTL), Louisiana, Quebec, and maybe some immigrating out into the Midwest and stuff.
Still unsure about the divisions of Louisiana, but here's my thought process so far:
*Louisiana (the one that looks like the state)
*The province to the north is based off of Spain's borders of Lower Louisiana
*Province to the North is based off of rivers around St. Louis, so Illinois?
Redoing the language map now, as I'd overestimated the part of the country that speaks French (and possibly Spanish as well).
EDIT: I didn't overestimate the area that speaks Spanish, and I even added some Spanish speaking areas to the map. New map about 2/3rds done.
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Also, I am changing the border between the Dominion and New Spain/Mexico to OTL's U.S.-Mexico border.
So, during the week that I was kicked, I had some thoughts about what I should do for this TL.
1. Should British North America be one giant country (as I had it initially), an eastern and western dominion with the border being the continental divide, or several smaller dominions?
2. If it is one united dominion, should the capital still being Philadelphia (the historic center of Colonial American politics, where the Declaration of Independence was drafted and where the Constitutional Convention was), or would a new capital be build further west (likely OTL's Chicago, Detroit or St. Louis due to geographic reasons).
3. I'm thinking that there would be an Anglo-Spanish war over OTL's American Southwest and Northern Mexico (Spain keeps their colonies for longer without the American Revolution stirring up calls for independence), which the British would win due to their navy, industry and the Spanish Empire being on the decline already. How much of OTL's Mexico do the British take (just OTL's Mexican-American war territory, a bit more of OTL's Northern Mexico, everything north of the Tropic of Cancer + the bit of the Baja Peninsula that goes below the Tropic of Cancer or the whole dang thing, which would be highly unlikely due to Central and Southern Mexico already having large populations of Brown Catholics, two things that 19th Century Anglo-Americans scoffed at), and would the British take other Spanish colonies like The Philippines, Cuba and Puerto Rico?
1. Should British North America be one giant country (as I had it initially), an eastern and western dominion with the border being the continental divide, or several smaller dominions?
2. If it is one united dominion, should the capital still being Philadelphia (the historic center of Colonial American politics, where the Declaration of Independence was drafted and where the Constitutional Convention was), or would a new capital be build further west (likely OTL's Chicago, Detroit or St. Louis due to geographic reasons).
3. I'm thinking that there would be an Anglo-Spanish war over OTL's American Southwest and Northern Mexico (Spain keeps their colonies for longer without the American Revolution stirring up calls for independence), which the British would win due to their navy, industry and the Spanish Empire being on the decline already. How much of OTL's Mexico do the British take (just OTL's Mexican-American war territory, a bit more of OTL's Northern Mexico, everything north of the Tropic of Cancer + the bit of the Baja Peninsula that goes below the Tropic of Cancer or the whole dang thing, which would be highly unlikely due to Central and Southern Mexico already having large populations of Brown Catholics, two things that 19th Century Anglo-Americans scoffed at), and would the British take other Spanish colonies like The Philippines, Cuba and Puerto Rico?
I've got a general direction laid out for this TL.
- Mexico and Central America (except for Panama) are part of the same country, however what form of government and whether they're still linked to Spain (think OTL's British Commonwealth for an idea) is to be determined.
- Baja Peninsula, Sonora and most of Chihuahua are part of the Dominion of America.
- Britain takes Cuba, Puerto Rico, Panama (to build the Canal) and The Philippines from Spain during the Anglo-Spanish War, which I'll talk more about in the future.
- A new capital city was built on the site of OTL's St. Louis, called Victoria (named for Queen Victoria), due to the westward expansion and the need for a more centrally, located capital city, with St. Louis chosen due to it's central location on the confluence of the Missouri and Mississippi Rivers and being located between the North and South. Victoria/St. Louis is a much larger city ITTL, with it's population being at least double what it is IOTL (2.8 million as of 2017 IOTL, so at least 4.6 Million ITTL). Victoria/St. Louis is separate from Missouri in the same way that D.C. is separate from Maryland IOTL. Speaking of OTL's D.C. area, Alexandria, VA and Georgetown, MD are still decent sized cities.
- OTL's Dominican Republic stayed Spanish after the war, although where it is now is uncertain.
- Haiti's fate is uncertain.
- South America's borders are pretty much like this.
- Australia is basically like in the Yankee Dominion TL (Edit: Australia/New Zealand is something I have to think more about, although it will still be split between the French, British and Dutch in some way).
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Native Americans are slightly better off than IOTL's U.S. and Canada. For example, part of Upstate New York is still heavily Iroquois, and much of the Northern Great Plains are Native.
Political Parties of the Dominion of America
Anglophone PartiesLabour Party
Leader: Bernard "Bernie" Sanders (New York)
Ideology: Social Liberalism, Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism
The Labour Party has traditionally been the strongest with the urban working class, as well as African-Americans. Economically left-wing and socially views varying across the party, it focuses on issues such as income inequality and special interest money.
Liberal Party
Leader: John Kasich (Ohio)
Ideology: Classical Liberalism, Conservative Liberalism, Libertarianism
The Liberal Party is strongest among the urban middle and upper classes, as well as in the centre of the country, favoring free-market economics and social policies varying from traditional conservatism to "live and let live" depending on the person. Supports free trade and market solutions to many problems.
National Party
Leader: Ted Cruz (Athabasca)
Ideology: Christian Conservatism, Christian Democracy, Nationalism
The National Party is strongest in the South and the Plains, with it's base being largely comprised of conservative Evangelical Christians (although other denominations such as Catholics and Anglicans are involved as well). It varies in economic views, but is socially conservative and in favor of immigration restrictions
Green Party
Leader: Nancy Pelosi (California)
Ideology: Environmentalism, Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism
Most popular with young, hip leftists, the Green Party is focused on environmental issues, as well as sharing many views with the Labour Party, although the Greens are by and large more socially libertine. Strongest in cities and on the coasts.
Francophone Parties
Parti des Travailleurs (English: Workers Party)
Leader: Justin Trudeau
Ideology: Social Liberalism, Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism
Popular with the working class historically, the Workers Party is basically the Franco-American equivalent to the Labour Party. However, the party has moved to the left socially since the 1990s, and many socially conservative Catholics are leaving the party, with various immigrant groups taking their place.
Union Nationale (English: National Union)
Leader: Maxime Bernier
Ideology: Conservatism, Christian Democracy, Conservative Liberalism
The Union Nationale is the main right-wing party in Francophone America, supported by the middle to upper classes, as well as conservative Catholics and in rural areas.
Hispanophone Parties
Los Trabajadores (English: The Workers)
Leader: Julian Castro (Texas)
Ideology: Social Liberalism, Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism
Formed by Mexican farm workers in the early 20th century, the Trabajadors historically dominated among the working class in both urban and rural areas. They aren't as socially libertine as the other left-wing parties in the Dominion, as Catholicism still has a strong influence among Hispanic Americans.
Unión Hispana (English: Hispanic Union)
Leader: Marco Rubio (Florida)
Ideology: Conservative Liberalism, Christian Democracy, Conservatism
The Unión Hispana is the main right-of-center party in Hispanic America, being strongest among the middle and upper classes, as well as a few who view the Trabajadores as too socially liberal or as heading in that direction.
I've got some ideas for a historical twist in demographics:
After the abolition of slavery in the British Empire in 1833 IOTL, the British imported Indian indentured servants to the Caribbean, Guyana, Fiji and South Africa, and today Trinidad/Tobago, Guyana and Suriname (which was Dutch) are majority Indian, with other places like Jamaica having Indian minorities. In fact, between 1838 and 1917, over 500,000 Indians were imported. It's possible that when the British abolish slavery ITTL (probably later than IOTL, since there'd be millions more slaves to compensate for the slave owners) that many Indians would be imported to the Deep South to work on the plantations, since the African-Americans are no longer slaves.
Another divergence might be the British importing Asians such as Chinese, Japanese and Filipinos to the west coast for agriculture. The U.S. IOTL brought a lot of Japanese, Koreans and Filipinos to Hawaii, which is why Hawaii is the only Majority-Asian state in the U.S. today. I could see agriculture in California's Central Valley using lots of Asian labor, especially for crops like rice, which is the main crop in East Asia and is a crop grown in OTL California (and also in parts of the Deep South). Today, the West Coast could have a larger Asian population, especially in the Central Valley of California and in irrigated areas such as the Colorado River valley.
So, what do you guys think? Is this plausible?
After the abolition of slavery in the British Empire in 1833 IOTL, the British imported Indian indentured servants to the Caribbean, Guyana, Fiji and South Africa, and today Trinidad/Tobago, Guyana and Suriname (which was Dutch) are majority Indian, with other places like Jamaica having Indian minorities. In fact, between 1838 and 1917, over 500,000 Indians were imported. It's possible that when the British abolish slavery ITTL (probably later than IOTL, since there'd be millions more slaves to compensate for the slave owners) that many Indians would be imported to the Deep South to work on the plantations, since the African-Americans are no longer slaves.
Another divergence might be the British importing Asians such as Chinese, Japanese and Filipinos to the west coast for agriculture. The U.S. IOTL brought a lot of Japanese, Koreans and Filipinos to Hawaii, which is why Hawaii is the only Majority-Asian state in the U.S. today. I could see agriculture in California's Central Valley using lots of Asian labor, especially for crops like rice, which is the main crop in East Asia and is a crop grown in OTL California (and also in parts of the Deep South). Today, the West Coast could have a larger Asian population, especially in the Central Valley of California and in irrigated areas such as the Colorado River valley.
So, what do you guys think? Is this plausible?
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Now, for the single most important question in this entire timeline...
Does the French Revoultion (or something like it) still happen? The effects of the French Revolution on the last 225 years of history are so monumental that I can't even begin to describe them, and this single question will determine almost the entire course of this timeline.
Does the French Revoultion (or something like it) still happen? The effects of the French Revolution on the last 225 years of history are so monumental that I can't even begin to describe them, and this single question will determine almost the entire course of this timeline.