Dominance of the Ottoman Empire

Oh well, not bad as a first post. Am still in teens though (won't specify exact age). Thanks for the comments and reviews, should help with the next one.

I'm thinking having Ogedi Khan live for at another 5-10 years.

Oh and I'm not against Europe, just finding some easy to extrapolate PODs
 
Well Austria had been a long term enemy by now.

The timeline does include obliteration of the Polish army, why not take advantage of that. And with Austria gone HRE soon follows.

Definately need to grab Persia in the 1700s (will need a route to British India anyway by 1815)

This is an unfinished map for the Napoleonic wars analogue, Semi-incorporated states are ones which still suffer from widespread rebellion. This will of course occur across most of Europe in the 1930s.

Does this help plausability?

Yes, but only in the sense that having Hitler conquer Australia in 1947 is more plausible than having Hitler conquer Australia in 1937.

Please read my previous posts. It does not work that way.

Edit: Those really are some nice maps.
 
Basically, the Ottoman Empire wins the seige of Vienna in 1683, then expands across Europe before being defeated by the Coalition of the Free World at the end of WWII in 1961.

It's always frustrating when you simply can't DO thing you want to do with an AH. That said I realized your timeline has become "Resistance: Fall of Europe" which is pretty cool but definitely ASB.

I'm not the Ottoman expert around here but I have read a lot about them being rather a fan. I think what could get you about as far as you can realistically would be two main PODs: Fazil Ahmed lives, and the rains in 1683 are not nearly as heavy as they were.

This would mean that the Ottomans can bring up heavier guns to actually make it through the walls quicker (IIRC they had just broken through when Sobieski and the other allies showed up) and have a better general in command. I think without that or some odd tech advances there is no way the Ottomans can win the battle. If they do win the battle, then I'd say your province of Galicia is possible in some form and maybe their Ukrainian allies can sieze everything west of the Dnieper. I do think a total defeat for Sobieski would probably result in a partition of Poland of some sort, it would also likely butterfly away Leelee Sobieski.

Assuming they can hold Vienna, they might be able to vassal the eastern half of your Austria the southern parts of what you call Silesia and up to the Istrian peninsula. Who knows, maybe they'll even be able to conquer Ragusa outright. Maybe with Austria weakened, they'll even have a go at S. Italy but it doesn't matter how weak the survivors in the HRE are, they are not going to all fall to the Ottomans. Other countries like Denmark, Sweden and Russia are going to move in on them if they really are weakened enough and it's possible that without Austria, Bavaria takes over as the leading state as I know they fought with Austria after Vienna, and were led by a guy who was a pretty decent general, Maximilian II, so it's not like there will be no decent opposition.

But without some ASBs, I think that's about as far as you can go with the Ottomans. Remember even in the 1700s the Ottoman authority over the Arab provinces was less than absolute. I can't image it would be easier for them in Europe.

As for why no Iran that I can deal with in a little more confidence, in a word: Mountains! In two words: Hostile Mountains! First you have restless Armenians that make it hard to hold down the east, second the troops always always ALWAYS hated having to march around mountains in the freezing cold for god knows how many months. Keeping morale up and mutiny down was always a resource-eating task. Also Iran was pretty strong. So a combination of the terrain making it hard to project power, making the soldiers grumble, and a strong opponent as well as religious differences means it would be like pulling teeth to conquer western Iran.
 
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If I may suggest one flaw near the end, nationalism would most likely be shot dead early on. The Ottomans had a stable Balkan peninsula until nationalism and the Hapsburgs/Russians messed with their stability. Something to keep in mind is that almost all monarchs who where in the Balkans never had a heir escape elsewhere, most of them died in their conquered countries. The Balkans can't play nationalism or loyalty to the crown. However, the Hapsburgs are a completely different story......but Austria never conquers part of the Balkans, so I don't see how that might work. If anything, after that long and no nationalism, I'd see most Balkan peoples fighting for the Ottomans, except maybe the Greeks. Just my idea, anyway.
 
Oh well, C'est la vie.

Could britain become the centre of the Renaissance though? (Italy ravaged, English nobility killed in Aquitane, scholars flee there) and if this butterflys in the survival of mongke for a few more years (collapse of Egypt) could refugees create a Free city State of Jerusalem in the Holy Land?
 
Oh well, C'est la vie.

Could britain become the centre of the Renaissance though? (Italy ravaged, English nobility killed in Aquitane, scholars flee there) and if this butterflys in the survival of mongke for a few more years (collapse of Egypt) could refugees create a Free city State of Jerusalem in the Holy Land?
Pardon me, I'm definitely no expert on the Ottoman Empire myself, but if your original scenario has had no editing done to it (I can't decide if you have or not), the Renaissance has occurred already, even in the North where it was severely delayed anyway. If the Ottoman Empire were to somehow explode and basically take over all of Europe (would this include the overseas colonies the European powers had as well?) that very well makes the Ottoman Empire one of, if not the dominant power on the planet. Any learning that takes place between 1683 to 1967 is going to take place in the Ottoman Empire. Science, art, literature, industry, politics - it's all going to be from the Ottomans. As others have said, nationalism probably has been shot between the eyes from this as well. You seem to be trying to do an anti-Ottoman Empire time line, but you've effectively done just the opposite from this. :p
 
Pardon me, I'm definitely no expert on the Ottoman Empire myself, but if your original scenario has had no editing done to it (I can't decide if you have or not), the Renaissance has occurred already, even in the North where it was severely delayed anyway. If the Ottoman Empire were to somehow explode and basically take over all of Europe (would this include the overseas colonies the European powers had as well?) that very well makes the Ottoman Empire one of, if not the dominant power on the planet. Any learning that takes place between 1683 to 1967 is going to take place in the Ottoman Empire. Science, art, literature, industry, politics - it's all going to be from the Ottomans. As others have said, nationalism probably has been shot between the eyes from this as well. You seem to be trying to do an anti-Ottoman Empire time line, but you've effectively done just the opposite from this. :p

Sorry, should have made this clear. at that point I was talkling about the MONGOL scenario voiced earlier. Not the original Ottoman Scenario.
 

Philip

Donor
Oh well, C'est la vie.

Could britain become the centre of the Renaissance though? (Italy ravaged, English nobility killed in Aquitane, scholars flee there) and if this butterflys in the survival of mongke

Not sure what you mean here. Are you planning on having the Mongols ravage Italy and Aquitaine?

for a few more years (collapse of Egypt) could refugees create a Free city State of Jerusalem in the Holy Land?
Refugees for Egypt? I'm fairly sure that neither the Kingdom of Jerusalem nor the Emirate of Damascus will be so accommodating.
 
The idea I had was this:

On the death of Ogedei Khan, an invasion of the HRE was planned. By the next year (if he survives) the HRE is finished, 5-7 years later, continental Europe is conquered/ravaged (this was planned) and the Italian city states destroyed. Scholars fleeing an invasion of Byzantium end up in England, the only safe place left, but the destruction of Aquitane when much of the English nobility, including the King and Prince of Wales (Butterfly that in 2 years after POD) were there causes England to descend into anarchy. After a few years, a number of independant states with Byzantine scholars have emerged. This is the same case of the Italian city states that made them perfect for the Renaissance.

Butterfly: Mongke ends up living a few more years, destroys Egypt in the 1260s. After his death (1265-1270) displaced christians, muslims and jews form a new kingdom in Jerusalem, based on equal representation for all faiths (they're not going to start killing each other if they've already just had their old homes trashed). Result: the Free State of Jerusalem.
 
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