Dom Pedro II’s children live full lives

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Jiraiyathegallant, Mar 15, 2019.

  1. Jiraiyathegallant Well-Known Member

    Jun 4, 2012
    Dom Pedro II of Brazil had two sons and two daughters. Both of his sons tragically died as infants, while one of his daughters died at 24. The loss of his children caused him great grief and more pessimistic at the prospects of Brazil’s monarchy as he did not think Brazil would respond well to a Queen calling the shots.

    What if his children had much greater health and all survived well into adulthood?

    Does the Monarchy survive? How might the development of Brazil change if their monarchy does infact survive? And would Pedro II have been likely to govern differently if he had a son?
  2. ByzantineCaesar Secretary-General of URSAL

    Mar 22, 2010
    São Paulo, SP, Brasil
    It is unlikely that the monarchy will fall. The presence of an heir would invigorate Pedro II in his later years and present a promising monarchical future to the Brazilian politicians, rather than an uncertain future under an ultracatholic Empress and a French Emperor-Consort. Brazil would greatly benefit of an extension of the monarchy into the 20th century and would enjoy far greater politicial stability than in the First Republic. Most important of all, the Army would not become the political actor it became in OTL. However, I have my doubts that the monarchy would be able to survive the equivalent to the OTL 1930 Revolution. The Brazilian Empire proved that it could reform itself in the 1830’s, but it struggled heavily with modernization in the 1870’s and 1880’s, so I don’t know. Perhaps the parliamentary system could soften the regime change enough that the monarchy is preserved once the OTL 1930 revolutionaries come to power. I am, however, skeptical that they would not see the monarchy as an archaic institution that must be abolished to bring Brazil into the modern age.
  3. WillVictoria Hasn't happened yet though

    Apr 3, 2014
    On the familial side, here's potential kids and grandkids for Pedro & Teresa Cristina
    1. Afonso (1845 - 1912) m. Duchess Sophie Charlotte in Bavaria (b. 1847 m. 1868 d. 1897)
      1. Teresa Cristina (1869 - 1946)
      2. Pedro Jose (1871 - 1915)
      3. Afonso Joao (1872 - 1912)
      4. Luisa Isabel (1874 - 1960)
      5. Maximiliano Luis (1877 - 1954)
      6. Sofia Carlota (1878 - 1929)
    2. Isabel (1846 - 1921) m. Infante Fernando of Portugal (b. 1846 m. 1864 d. 1869)
      1. Fernando (1865 - 1950)
      2. Maria Teresa (1867 - 1899)
      3. Pedro (1868 - 1929)
    3. Leopoldina (1847 - 1920) m. Louis August of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (b. 1845 m. 1864 d. 1907
      1. Peter (1866 -1907)
      2. August (1867 - 1915)
      3. Joseph (1869 - 1904)
      4. Clementine (1870 - 1940)
      5. Louis (1874 - 1878)
    4. Pedro (1848 - 1888) m. Mathilde of Austria (b. 1849 m. 1869 d. 1897)
      1. Pedro (1870 - 1953)
      2. Hildegard (1872 - 1935)
      3. Teresa (1873 - 1877)
      4. Albert (1875 - 1958)
      5. Francisco (1877)
      6. Matilda (1880- 1931)
  4. Lalli Well-Known Member

    Feb 28, 2010
    If even on of sons of Pedro II would survive adulthood and outlive his father, Brazil monarchy can survive if not to 2019 at least longer. Pedro II became really pessimistic about future of monarchy and he didn't even care about whole thing. Even in OTL he could had crushed revolution but he didn't anything.

    If Brazil manage make needed reforms Brazil under monarchy could be real great power at least in South America.
  5. WillVictoria Hasn't happened yet though

    Apr 3, 2014
    If Pedro really stopped caring, at that point could he have abdicated in favor of Prince Imperial? By the 1880s (when everything seemed to go downhill) Afonso would be 35+ and have several heirs already. Maybe some new blood could reinvigorate the monarchy?
    Jiraiyathegallant likes this.
  6. Lalli Well-Known Member

    Feb 28, 2010
    Pedro II became depressed with monarchy due his son's death. If Afonso or Pedro would survive him would has has more faith to the system and hardly would abdicate. It is possible but not likely.
    Jiraiyathegallant likes this.
  7. Miguel Lanius Well-Known Member

    May 2, 2012
    Alternate 1889:

    Marshal Deodoro: "My Lord, I am deposing you. Long live the Brazilian Republic."

    Dom Pedro II: Delivers epic speech that rouses loyalty in Deodoro's men

    Marshal Deodoro: "I think I have erred horribly..." gets arrested by his own men

    Also, Floriano Peixoto trips straight into a bayonet or something, because fuck him

    Brazilian history books now always include a pithy note about Deodoro's failed idiot coup that gets shut down with nairy a shot
  8. Miguel Lanius Well-Known Member

    May 2, 2012
    If the Monarchy trucks along as an stable regime, I suspect that Brazil will be +40 years more advanced and richer than OTL.

    The period between 1889 and 1930 is the worst period of national history. Weak presidents, a bad economy, debasing of the national currency, military unrest, revolts, plague, the country being literally controlled by a shadow puppet-master (Pinheiro Machado) and later by a Para-Masonic Society of Lawyers from São Paulo (No I'm not kidding). By the time Vargas rolls around, he pretty much mercy-kills the idiot mess called "the Old Republic".

    I can see why everyone was so eager to follow a dictator like Vargas. I think if I had lived that mess, I would have gladly thrown my banner behind, too. At least he got shit done.