Do you want to remain under Hasburgs ?

After loosing the WW1, the Austro-Hungarian Empire was meant to be dismantled. Charles of Habsburg, opposed to this decision, was ablel to get a referendum. Everyone in the old Austro-Hungarian boundaries is allowed to participate. The question ? Do you want to remain under Hasburg monarchy.

What would happen ? Would Charles remain king/duke/whatever somewhere ?
 
After loosing the WW1, the Austro-Hungarian Empire was meant to be dismantled. Charles of Habsburg, opposed to this decision, was ablel to get a referendum. Everyone in the old Austro-Hungarian boundaries is allowed to participate. The question ? Do you want to remain under Hasburg monarchy.

What would happen ? Would Charles remain king/duke/whatever somewhere ?

Okay, looking for some limits.
I'll assume universal male suffrage? There is the precedent that woman had at some point been allowed to vote in the AH Empire, but at this point this privilege has been rescinded when the Kurien gave way to a more universal male voting right. Well universal for over 21 IIRC.
How will boarders be drawn? What administrative unit will be used here? Gemeinde, Kreis/Bezirk, Land? Even then how would one deal with the potential enclaves? Since post WWI the idea was clear boarders among ethical lines that didn't exist...
What about the territories given to the Italians, Romanians and Serbians? They do have the distinction of actually having fought as a nation in the Entente during WWI. Now I know the precedent of the referendum in Kärnten, but that was a relative small area...
Then there is the question of Poland, though they had less influence.
(German-)Austria, Czechoslovakia and Hungary of course were created only out of former AH territories, so they'd probably be created depending on the referendum.

Also you'd have to explain how they convinced the Entente to allow this referendum. Since Karl would have to convince them, nobody else would have the influence to make the referendum not just happen, but be accepted.

Then it comes down to other questions: What kind of Constitution would this new Habsburg Empire/Archduchy/Whatever follow? If it is one heavily weighted against the monarch I could see more people supporting it. Then there is the question of languages. And yes, that'd have to be in there. I'd assume the most likely way is ratifying the constitution with this referendum and the territorial question being second to this. That then most likely happen on the level of Länder, so pretty high level. And there I'd assume support would be pretty limited...

I'm just going to make some predictions without knowing clear limits and assuming everything is up for grabs. Also a relative weak monarch and still a constitution that promised multiculturalism, but can't shake the german overtones... Also kinda assuming that the OTL boarders are kinda known as a possible plan.
Starting in the West: South Tyrol proper would stay Austria, Trente probably won't, but I'm not that certain about that one.
Austria proper will stay "Habsburg" though Vienna might not vote for it, with their strong socialist base there.
There'd be a mess of conflicting votes in the mixed areas of Bohemia and Moravia. Mixed and German areas more likely to vote "Habsburg". From what I can remember a "Habsburg" Austrian Sliesa might also happen, annoying both Czechs and Poles.
I can see the parts of Galicia with strong Ruthenian and Jewish populations voting for "Habsburg" and against Poland.
Slovakia will probably be a mess as well. The only thing I'd think I'd win is a prediction that Bratislava might just go "Habsburg". The Hungarian influenced areas on the other hand probably won't follow.
Neither will Hungary proper. I know Horthy kept up that fiction OTL - but in this scenario I'd assume they'd drop Karl quickly.
There will be a mess in the Romanian area. I can see some pretty big "Habsburg" enclaves in there, mainly where large German minorities are present, but also against the trend Hungarians who do not want Romanian rule. "Better the devil you know" and all that.
I'm not certain about the SHS and rest-Italian areas. If any of them go "Habsburg" it's only because they are anti-Italian or anti-Serbian, not because of a large love to the Habsburg.

All in all you'd get a country that looks somewhat like a tattered carpet, with maybe worse enclaves and boarders than the Indian/Bangladeshi boarder was.
While OTL politicians shouted that Austria isn't viable because it's too small, I predict that this Austria, despite being bigger and more populous might actually be less viable than the OTL one...
 

RousseauX

Donor
After loosing the WW1, the Austro-Hungarian Empire was meant to be dismantled. Charles of Habsburg, opposed to this decision, was ablel to get a referendum. Everyone in the old Austro-Hungarian boundaries is allowed to participate. The question ? Do you want to remain under Hasburg monarchy.

What would happen ? Would Charles remain king/duke/whatever somewhere ?
Who am I?

A slav? a hungarian? A german?

depends
 

TruthfulPanda

Gone Fishin'
My grandma was born and lived in Galicia - do I get a vote?
:)
If yes - then I vote "no" as that means no reunification with rest of Poland.
 
My initial thoughts were that the A-H Empire is doomed, but others here have argued it had more life in it in a world where outside forces are not pressing for its dismantling. Thus I think you need to look at the Entente for a change in their thinking to allow the A-H to survive, perhaps a no USA Entente victory. Otherwise I think your scenario is more a function of a surviving but badly wounded A-H. Your outline looks like a variation on federalizing the Empire akin to how Imperial Germany had constituent States with greater autonomy but here having only one "King". This might meet the aspirations for autonomy and preserve the greater whole but I find it a real hard pill to swallow. Rather than "balkanize" A-H, I think you have an Austrian component, a Hungarian Kingdom, a Polish Kingdom (assuming A-H does well enough to gain Poland), and potentially a Czech Kingdom and a South Slav, i.e. Croat Kingdom (merging in Serbia, et al.). This is likely the most difficult needle to thread, a weak enough center and restless enough peoples yet gravity to hold it together. Another steep treacherous climb.

My thinking is if it just can't totter on because the alternatives are worse, you split this baby, Austrian lands on one side and Kingdom of Hungary on the other. Poland is likely out and you face a Czech exit, leaving a disconnected rump Austria holding border land of Bohemia and Moravia with Silesia, Ruthenia and Bukovina, Dalmatia and hopefully the other obvious bits. I think then you might see a "vote" that sees this remnant Austrian lands holding the minorities without anywhere to go and Germans. Germans in Hungary should fair well enough that I doubt they rebel, overtime they might filter back, but I am open to persuasion they faced real hate from Hungary? And now you might get a swing at Austria joining Imperial Germany who I think prefers not to have her but certainly would merge her into the Customs Union and a defense alliance. Join independent Hungary and you virtually have a surviving A-H. Only Poland and the Czechs are up in the air. My fear is that Germany exerts control over the spun off Poland and certainly prefers that the Bohemian Kingdom fall into its orbit as well. Let that occur with a more modest independence movement and no true bad blood and you might get on path towards an alternate EU, especially if we can scrap together a menacing USSR.
 
I was assuming a badly wounded Austria-Hungary (that could even an alone Austria) ... the idea is that Charles von Habsburg argued that if people were allowed to choose their own path, one possibility was to allow people to choose to remain under Habsburg realm, so states choosing Habsburg instead of a republic would be under some kind of personnal union.
 
Othala, I was assuming this type of mess you talked about, I looked at your answer, do we both imagine something like that ? How could we even name it ?
 

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I think the thorny issue is autonomy versus independence, some of these subject peoples had a strong independence mindset, for example the Poles, they were once a Kingdom in their own right and could claim such independence the Czechs are another, but for example the Ruthenians (Ukrainians) had no such drive, for them recognition of their language and culture was possibly enough. The slippery slope is that by carving out enclaves based on languages or ethnicity you merely feed the independence urge. The war seriously damaged Hapsburg credibility and weakened its ability to act as a unifier. The age of having a foreign King who you were loyal to was giving way to nationalist sentiments, the Hapsburgs failed to build an A-H identity to compete. Their Empire survived too much on the enemy of my enemy is my friend politics, better to be in an Empire we detest than gobbled by Empires we fear. The duality in the monarchy is is flaw, a flaw I assume FF wanted to redress by reimposing an Austrian flavor to everything in the guise of federation. That too merely reaffirms the dividing lines. Perhaps the reforms sought do look like Germany, a more representative national diet with preserved powers locally, not as much "Lands" as much as yet another lower into the fabric of the Empire. The Empire needs reorganized like the later German Lander that give a framework to the patchwork of localities but are new enough not to remind one too much of the aspiring national identities while giving a new place to have a say in the affairs that effect you. These get bound to the center like the Bundesrat, a Senate with equal representation of the multitude of "provinces" so no one feels belittled or left out as a "people," yet any such identity is muted. But all of that is almost alien to the rulers of the day, they want to draw up new places for new titles of aristocracy or preserve the ones they inherited. Without outside threats the A-H Empire explodes yet it is imploding without reform, thus I think why it is often placed on the critically ill list. The best I have done so far is have the war end well enough that the Empire is not killed, it can last a few more decades as it struggles to find the balance but ultimately I have it split, some revolution, some mass walk out, some velvet divorce. A sort of Prague Spring without the tanks or treachery. I look for something else.
 
Othala, I was assuming this type of mess you talked about, I looked at your answer, do we both imagine something like that ? How could we even name it ?
As somebody mentioned, there is something off about that map. I can't really put my finger on it, but there are also things at the western and southern boarder that feel odd.

However for your question. If it stayed multicultural the obvious name would be Austria - though the title is not too certain, Empire, Kingdom and Archdutchy, as well as something among the lines of "Princly States of Austria" - "Österreichische Fürstentümer" might be a possibility.

And for territory? Far far worse than that. Taking your map as a very rough idea. Along the northern part there'd be a gap and then non connected parts of Galizia. To the south of that there'd be the Hungarian and German majority lands in the middle of Romania. There'd be smaller enclaves all over the place... On the other hand there might be some cities in there, that decided to vote against the Habsburg monarchy. So maybe a city state of Vienna?

Putting this up as a referendum is a mess. It's only really viable on a all-or-nothing question on the level of Hungary and Cisleithania or if needed on a Länder level with some added restrictions and probably grouping of some of them. Maybe after the relevant Entente powers had picked out their spoils? Though that'd lead to boarders that would be fought over possibly up to our time and beyond. See South Tyrol for a taste of what that could be.
 
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Following your answers about the first map, I restrained myself with some rules :

- Yugoslavia received almost the same things that OTL, except Prekmurje that was historically German for a very long time.
- Hungary had to elect a king (I would go with Ulrich Kinsky if you want a name, he's not important ...)
- The Czechomoravian Republic and the Princely States allow free passage to each others citizens, and even though they are two separate states, they still have close ties for both historical and practical reasons.
- The referendum was held after Italy took Trentino, but Südtyrol Austrians were allowed to choose.
- The city of Vienna is in a federal union with the princely states, but it's more of an historical curiosity, they nowadays are really close, and the High Prince lives in Schonbrünn.
- The monarch is called High Prince, and there are four Princes, the High Prince inherits of the Throne, the Princes (or Princess) are elected with universal suffrage, but it's mandatory to be member of the Habsburg-Lorraine family to be a candidate.
- Some places voted to remain under Habsburg rule, but their insulation made it impossible to integrate them. People living in those places still have a double nationality (half Hungarian half Austrian)
- The vote was held by Land, so some minorities are still in other countries, but several treaties and conferences during the 20s and 30s helped much to give a long term solution.
 

Md139115

Banned
Honestly, if we really think about it, the Austrian Habsburgs generally have been among the absolute best ruling families in European history. Yes they were mostly despots and absolutists, but generally they were competent and level-headed rational actors, most unlike many of their cousins. If I had to pick a ruling family to be under...
 
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