Do you think the world would be a better place had the CP won WW1?

[Jape]

TBH I think the 'rosy' result leads easily into *WW2.

Let's say Britain and Italy stay out due to an East First strategy.

The Germans roll into Russia, wiping out armies as they go, forcing the Russians to pull out of their romp in Galicia. Due to Franco-Russian diplomatic incompetence Bulgaria joins up earlier and Serbia is squashed. Romania might even side with the Central Powers if France looks bereft and Bessarabia is all but sitting on a plate.

The Eastern Front gets nasty as the Germans plough further on, before finally a crisis leads Nicholas to abdicate in favour of his brother Michael (no one trusted poor Alexis to take the throne), who oversees peace. Now the treaty is debatable. Originally in 1917 the Germans were happy to take Congress Poland and Lithuania but that might have been partly to hurry up a settlement so they could focus on the West, it was Trotsky's insane negotiating 'style' that led to Brest-Litovsk. However would a Germany on the top of the world, free of British blockade be as cagey or would they produce something as grand as what they ended up with 1918? Judging by their plans for Belgium and France I'd say they'd go big and therein the future peace of Europe is doomed.

Come the implosion of France, I imagine in a similar fashion to Germany's own defeat via internal chaos and armistice, the Germans shave off more of the border, possibly bully Luxembourg into the Reich and take some colonies.

So you've got Mitteleuropa, Mittelafrika and Austria-Hungary occupying Serbia. Kaiser Wilhelm will use his new super position to continue arms racing with Britain leading (if lucky) to a Cold War. Add to this a possible pro-democracy movement growing in Germany (the SPD will probably want more say after they bankrolled the war). If you're lucky, Wilhelm concedes but you'll probably end up with a constitutional crisis that ends with either Willy II abdicating or the Reichstag getting closed. Ultimately I imagine the former, leading to democratic government under Wilhelm III (though he wasn't very democratic so who knows), after a series of protests, riots and palace coups.

Austria-Hungary under Karl will be interesting but I think Serbia will bleed its will, come the Augsleich in 1927, I think Hungary might finally pull out if its aristocratic government hasn't been overthrown yet. Possibly a lovely multi-ethnic union but if so, a very unstable one.

Now Russia - you've got liberal Michael trying to bring democracy to Russia. I imagine a chaotic decade or two will lead to major revanchist tendencies (particularly for Belarus and the Russian half of Ukraine) or maybe even a full blown *fascist movement replete with anti-Semitism, full on Church backing and thanks to Mitteleuropa, a very attractive Panslavism. German domination of Europe is going to freak a lot of people out and I can see British and American assets flooding into Russia in the 1920s to provide the counterweight (In America's case financial against the protectionist Zollverein, in Britain's case more geopolitical).

Cut to 1940 or so, you've got a jingoistic (and industrialised) Russia, a spiteful France (I imagine under a pseudo-Gaullist like the PSF) and a worried Britain all keen to put the boot into Germany's hegemony which is probably a little ropey at this stage.

I see Russia launching Barbarossa in reverse, Britain dismantling the German colonial empire and battling for domination of the high seas and France holding off for a while. Simple weakness and probably quite an insular state at this point means France isn't in alliance with the old Entente members. However once Russia rolls into Warsaw, Romania switches sides and the RAF is levelling Hamburg, they'll get more confident. Britain might even look the other way for the sake of conflict resolution and support their army's passage through Belgium to punch into the Ruhr.

Not say that's how it would go but I think CP Victory could easily lead to WWII, even worse, if the *Entente won said war, WWIII isn't to difficult to imagine...

 

[Enigmajones]

I wonder how you missed the fact that three other members already replied to that...

Saw Abhakazia's post and immediately replied. After I was done, went back and saw Blairwitch beat me too it. Figured I'd already wasted enough time, and that going back to delete the post would only be a further waste of my time, so I left it. I can delete it if it sufficiently offends your sensibilities.

 

[Kongzilla]

i think the Later the Victory the nicer Germany becomes. Weren't all the German people yelling for Reforms of some sort. Couldn't that Liberalize the German Empire a bit.

 

[Nietzsche]

A world with a surviving and powerful German Empire, Hapsburg State and the Sublime Porte lead to massively increased standard of living in the world in general. If their relations stay as good as they were in the early 1900s, Germany will be seeing alot of oil money albeit indirectly. When the time comes to start drilling, the Turks will likely contract it out to German industries until the market is on its feet.

With the Mitteleuropa Zone, this wealth will trickle down into the Central-East European states, leading to a betterment of infrastructure, education, the works. Their cultures may take a hit due to German dominance, but life would likely be far and away better than OTL, even present OTL.

Also, Germany isn't going to go all Napoleon post-war. Why would it? It'll have its Empire, and will be far more focused on keeping it. Britain didn't go on a conquering spree, and she could've done it far better than even this Germany.

Europe is likely to be a string of German puppets and satellites, I know, however ask yourself this. If it means no holocaust and the war-related deaths of 18,000,000 civilians, is it that bad a trade off?

 

[Enigmajones]

Now personally, I think that the Central Powers had about as much of a chance of winning WW1 as the Rhodesians did in retaining White minority rule until modern day. That being said, I have a TL that is solely based on exploring what Europe would have looked like under German political domination and frankly, this whole concept that life would be better ACROSS THE BOARD, is just wrong. France is going to be wrecked, with Treaty of Versailles limitations being looked on as light compared to what the Kaiser will force on the French. The Netherlands, Luxembourg and Belgium will be lassoed into an economic and customs union with the Germans, which over time will eliminate any semblance independence.

Austria-Hungary, will most likely fall apart during the 1920's, barring a complete overhaul of the Dual Monarchy and the creation of a Federalist democracy, and even then the demands of the Czechs, Slovaks, Croats, Slovenians, Bosnians and Serbs may be to much for the Austrians to agree to. Romania is demoted to a third world state, Bulgaria is a slightly bigger third world state, and the Ottoman Empire is another state with limited time on the clock. Arab nationalism didn't just spring from an empty well, and the Arabs will find financiers, most likely in the form of the British.

And when it comes to Mitteleuropa, that completely depends on the type of "victory" that the Germans secure. An early victory on the Western Front, coupled with the defeat of Russia at Tannenberg will most likely result in a Russian exit from the war. The Eastern Front goes quiet and the Russians end up having a little better chance of surviving the decade as an absolute monarchy, although once again, if they democratize their government, anything is possible. Now if it involves a Mitteleuropa, than that would be a whole different story. Poland remains in open rebellion against the Germans until they receive a guarantee of independence (which will NEVER happen) and the Baltics become a seething pot of dissent as the Grand Duchy of Livonia continues to marginalize the rights of the Latvian and Estonian people. Lithuania will be a loyal ally right up until the Germans announce the plan to annex the poor little state, at which point, ANY support for Minadaugas is done. And the Ukraine......is still the Ukraine.

As for Germany, we will likely see an increase in the standard of living, but right wing populism will be more powerful than ever, thanks to such an overwhelming victory in the Great War. No democratization of the Reichstag, and a quagmire in the East will almost definitely destabilize that situation by the 1950's if the Germans are lucky. In all likelihood the second "Great War" is on the horizon and Europe as a whole is far worse off.

Thats my two cents on the matter anyhow.

 

[Nietzsche]

the Baltics become a seething pot of dissent as the Grand Duchy of Livonia continues to marginalize the rights of the Latvian and Estonian people. Lithuania will be a loyal ally right up until the Germans announce the plan to annex the poor little state, at which point, ANY support for Minadaugas is done.

I'm short on time so I'll just do this one and get the rest of your post later.

Why in the seven gay blue hells would Germany want to annex Lithuania? They weren't slated for incorporation in the United Baltic Duchy. There's too many Catholics there, far too many.

 

[Enigmajones]

I'm short on time so I'll just do this one and get the rest of your post later.

Why in the seven gay blue hells would Germany want to annex Lithuania? They weren't slated for incorporation in the United Baltic Duchy. There's too many Catholics there, far too many.

No, Lithuania wasn't planned for immediate integration to the German Reich like the UBD was, but Lithuania was slated for eventual integration into Germany. Much like Poland's principality, which would have minor autonomy, Lithuania would exercise all the rights that say the Kingdom of Bavaria did within the German Reich, which is to say, not much.

 

[Riain]

My opinion, such as it is, is that the war can't be won any earlier than 1916 and by 1918 widespread revolution which is largely responsible for all the shit that followed WW1 is inevitable. However that does leave a window where the CP can win without the extreme nastiness of ToBL/ToV. In that case the victorious Germany would most probably liberalise and the political changes in the Entente would not be as severe.

I don't deny that Greater German hegemony on the Continent would be less than hilarious, but the OTL alternative was all sorts of horrific genocides, forced famines, purges and subsequent proxy wars. I'd say this is better than OTL.

 

[The Yogi]

I belive a "Russia first" strategy is likely to produce peace treaties far less ruinous than Brest-Litovsk/Versailles and therefore reduce the chance for a secound round 20 years later.

In the east, the only reason the CP could advance as far as the Ukraine is the collapse of Czarist Russia and the "novel" approach of the Bolsheviks to peace negotiations - refuse to continue the war and refuse to make peace. In situation where the Russians are being crushed from the start with no relief coming from France (which is busy smashing itself to pieces against German defences in Alsace), they will likely just make peace with the CP. Such a peace would not be Brest-Litovsk. I can't see either the Ukraine nor Belarus lost. Loosing Poland, the Baltic shore and Finland is something one could hope Russia could come to terms with without inevitably going all revanchist, and still big enough a win that the Germans will accept it. I don't think that in their wildest 1914 dreams the CP expected to wrench Bielorussia and the Ukraine from Russia.

As for the west, with Russia out of the war, France really can't hope to win anymore - but on the other hand, continuing the war will be a real conundrum for Germany. The Schlieffen plan was formulated precisely because the Germans didn't think they could beat France by attacking across the narrow Alsatian frontier, not any more than France could win by attacking the other way. But Schlieffen with France fully mobilized and ready does look far more difficult than one launched to capitalise on faster German mobilisation right at the start of the war. It also cannot help but draw Britain in on the French side, something the Kaiser wanted to avoid, however unwise he might have been otherwise.

Thus both sides have good reason to accept something very close to a White Peace after a quick CP victory over Russia. Perhaps Germany annexes Luxemburg, but that would be the extent of their expansion in the west.

If the Germans really want to settle accounts, they might go for a limited advance to capture the Briey orefields, but if doable at all the price in blood will be staggering, and again might very well bring Britain into the war - so if the Germans have shred of sense, they'll consider their war aims achieved after Russia says "uncle" and sign a whiteish peace with France ASAP.

 

[MSchock]

Everything depends

After reading some answers here i am asking myself how the people come to the conclusions they have?

Some OTL-facts:
Imperial Germany, after unyifing in 1871 caused no war for 43 years.
Imperial Germany took some colonies, compared to the "great" nations france and great britain these are unimportant
Imperial Germany had no direct interest in a large war - the mishandling of the july-crisis leads to the war, in it the german government made huge mistakes. BUT - everything started with the russian expansion dreams... they wanted the dardanells, they "belived" in "unifying all slaves" and thought it is their right to start wars for it.

Great Britains war causes are not only "rescue belgium" as some may belive. After reading a lot (before joining) i agree with the ones that say that UK in ANY scenario will support france and russia, just because they wanted to defeat its economical superior competitior.

So - with a war ending in 1916-1918, after the bloodbath in the west, after the huge russian crimes in the east (against poles, jews, etc), why in hell do the people think that imperial germany (after winning the war) will act like nazi germany in otl?

It would be great if these people could explain why the have this opinion.
For me it looks like the british propaganda of 1900-1919 is still in the heads of the people. That is okay for 1920, but in 2013 the people should really inform themself.

About the article in wiki about the massmurderer in süd-west.
It is very weak, mostly written by a user who has - at last it is my opinion - someone related to the hereros

For this war i like to give some facts:
the british sponsored the rebellion
the hereros attacked their colony "masters" - nothing ANY european country "liked" or handled with care
the killing wasn´t ordered by the german government but was a single decision by von Trotha. It was an evil crime but it was no planned genocide by the german government.
the "extermination camps" - as such did the wiki author label the concentraion camps - had the same problems like the british ones with the boers. Would the people who agree with the article say the brits tried to exterminate the boers? really? If this is so, they should please write it here.
compared with british or french colonies, the germans actual cared for education and medicine. this does not appologize the crimes by germans against the hereros or the general german colonial behaviour, but it wasn´t the "missing link" to the holocaust.

Just think about the sepoy-liberation movement in india and the actings by the british army...

In colonial things every "master" acted evil - nobody can hope to be the "good" guy, everyone was evil, brutal and cruel.

I really hope to read how the cp-victory is as evil as otl or even more evil (one user wrote this, i think) I like to learn

 

[Derek Pullem]

The Germans paid labour a pittance in German East Africa that then would be collected in taxes as a head tax. I understand how one can call this slavery or involuntary labor, but one can't give the Entente a break on the issue. The UK, Belgium, Portugal, Italy, and France all found ways to get basically free labor without having De Jure slavery in most cases. And BTW, the UK did not outlaw slavery until 1908 in Zanzibar and it only applied to people born after the date of the decree, so the UK had slavery until the end. The Imperial Germans are not unique in their behavior and not the worst (Belgian clearly win #1). And concentration camps go back to the Boer Wars by the UK if not earlier. Now the Nazi did have death camps, but they really did not function the same as concentration camps of earlier governments. The industrialized death camp system for an entire race of people was really a Nazi innovation. Earlier colonial powers did kill through neglect and economic exploitation as motives. The Nazi were out to exterminate. While both are evil, they are not the same.

Zanzibar banned the slave trade in 1874. UK only achieved a de jure protectorate over Zanzibar in 1890. The status of slave was legally abolished in Zanzibar in 1897.

Germany did not proclaim the freedom of slaves until 1905 and this only applied to those born after 1890.

European colonies in Africa generally did not create slaves (Congo was an exception) but were slow to remove existing institutions of slavery, particularly when control of colonies or protectorates were tenuous and especially if the governing culture tolerated slavery (e.g. most Islamic areas such as Sudan, Northern Nigeria and East African Arab enclaves).

 

[machine3589]

Saw Abhakazia's post and immediately replied. After I was done, went back and saw Blairwitch beat me too it. Figured I'd already wasted enough time, and that going back to delete the post would only be a further waste of my time, so I left it. I can delete it if it sufficiently offends your sensibilities.

Next time you could read the whole thread before replying. It only takes a few minutes more with threads that have two pages worth of replies.

 

[tallthinkev]

Could there be no WWI on the first place? But which I mean Britian, France and Germany see that what ever happens in the balkans it's going to be bad news for everyone. Maybe making Russia and A-H sit down and make peace before it gets out of hand. Or, just let them get on with it. If Germany does get involved this will mean France will as well. Would Britian make them talk? Again before it gets too bad.
The 'best way' Germany takes A-H, the Czar gives up, either to his son or the whole family leaves Russia leaving Britian and or Germany to run the country for a while then when things have settled down to a better Russia.
France may be sidelined leaving Britian and Germany as top nations. Britian has the best navy and Germany the biggest army, they will not want to fight each other.
As for the US, sod Europe we like it at home?

 

[Zaius]

Imperial Germany had no direct interest in a large war - the mishandling of the july-crisis leads to the war, in it the german government made huge mistakes. BUT - everything started with the russian expansion dreams... they wanted the dardanells, they "belived" in "unifying all slaves" and thought it is their right to start wars for it.

Blaming everything on Russia is quite unfair. Consider for instance the blank cheque Germany offered to Austria-Hungary shortly before the war broke out, and Austria-Hungary’s conduct towards Serbia.

Could there be no WWI on the first place? But which I mean Britian, France and Germany see that what ever happens in the balkans it's going to be bad news for everyone. Maybe making Russia and A-H sit down and make peace before it gets out of hand. Or, just let them get on with it. If Germany does get involved this will mean France will as well. Would Britian make them talk? Again before it gets too bad.
The 'best way' Germany takes A-H, the Czar gives up, either to his son or the whole family leaves Russia leaving Britian and or Germany to run the country for a while then when things have settled down to a better Russia.
France may be sidelined leaving Britian and Germany as top nations. Britian has the best navy and Germany the biggest army, they will not want to fight each other.
As for the US, sod Europe we like it at home?

IMO yes, WWI was definitely avoidable. Even in Summer ’14, if the Germans had told A-H that if it wanted war with Serbia it was on its own, the event might have been remembered as just another crisis. AFAIK it was common belief in Germany that after 1916 or so a war with Russia would be unwinnable, so if Europe only held out two more years or so I expect that the Central Powers would have become much more peaceful. That is not to say another war could not have broken out, say, 20 years down the line, but by this point it's no longer WWI.

 

[machine3589]

TBH I think the 'rosy' result leads easily into *WW2.

Let's say Britain and Italy stay out due to an East First strategy.

The Germans roll into Russia, wiping out armies as they go, forcing the Russians to pull out of their romp in Galicia. Due to Franco-Russian diplomatic incompetence Bulgaria joins up earlier and Serbia is squashed. Romania might even side with the Central Powers if France looks bereft and Bessarabia is all but sitting on a plate.

The Eastern Front gets nasty as the Germans plough further on, before finally a crisis leads Nicholas to abdicate in favour of his brother Michael (no one trusted poor Alexis to take the throne), who oversees peace. Now the treaty is debatable. Originally in 1917 the Germans were happy to take Congress Poland and Lithuania but that might have been partly to hurry up a settlement so they could focus on the West, it was Trotsky's insane negotiating 'style' that led to Brest-Litovsk. However would a Germany on the top of the world, free of British blockade be as cagey or would they produce something as grand as what they ended up with 1918?

No. Because A) they probably didn`t take nearly as much of Imperial Russian territory as they did IOTL, and B) Russia won`t be kicked out of the war in just under a year`s worth of fighting.

Judging by their plans for Belgium and France I'd say they'd go big and therein the future peace of Europe is doomed.

Which ones? Germany never had any official plans for victory demands in the West; not even the Septemberprogramm counts as official.

Come the implosion of France, I imagine in a similar fashion to Germany's own defeat via internal chaos and armistice, the Germans shave off more of the border, possibly bully Luxembourg into the Reich and take some colonies.

In 1915.? France will not implode internally with no Germans on French soil whatsoever...

In fact, these are the problems with Yogi`s scenario as well. You can`t expect such an outcome with WWI technology; especially the German advances preposed. One could make the opposing sides do better in the early stages, but the war itself can IMO only be ended one or two years in advance.

 

[Awilla the Hun]

As has been said, there are points of view. I therefore have two possible scenarios which 'could' happen (neither of which are especially realistic), because the simplest answer from my POV is the most honest: I have no idea which is more likely.

--

The best scenario

• Germany manages to secure victory in 1914 by knocking out France with the Schlieffen plan and stalling Russia with one of its grand offensives. Britain manages to seize some German colonies to mask its defeat, but the writing's on the wall, and all parties make peace.

THE ENTENTE

• Destabilised by another military defeat, just like after the Crimean War and Russo-Japanese War, the Tsar is forced to make more political concessions. Russia is politically shaky, but it does not fall to revolution. The railway network is still intact, food is still distributed, and the army on side.
• France is gravely weakened as a great power due to the loss of industries. However, it hasn't taken the losses of a prolonged war. (One happy outcome of the War is that womens' suffrage is passed earlier than in our timeline. Vivani is in cabinet, and political support for it was displayed in 1914. The expectation was that it would be passed by around 1916, but WWI got in the way. Now there is no prolonged war, and an angry populace want some concessions.)
• Britain has not taken the losses of WWI. There is unrest in its empire due to the defeat, and the Royal Navy must face an ever strengthening German fleet.

THE CENTRAL POWERS

• The Ottoman Empire stays out of the war, and remains intact. It is shaken by nationalist uprisings, but keeps them under control. Just.
• Despite the Kaiser's urgings, the German Empire ultimately reforms into a more democratic state. It is now a sated power, in a position of supremacy in Europe. It bullies its neighbours, and its colonial empire isn't a haven of tranquility; but, at least, it isn't going to cause a second World War.
• Austria-Hungary endures. Hungarians still repress their lessers, and it is rocked by continuing nationalist tensions; but there is evidence to suggest that it had a functioning civil society, and that it was not, as AJP Taylor claims, administrating instead of governing. It more or less grinds on.

THE LONG TERM

• The prewar international system hasn't broken down. There is still free trade, the Great Powers are wealthier, and millions of people aren't dead.
• The colonial empires are reformed due to the shake-ups of WWI. India, for example, gains a degree of self government. However, due to some degree of benevolence I can't rightly explain, and the greater wealth of the powers, they are ultimately relinquished peacefully, and with better preparations than in this timeline.

The worst scenario

• Germany manages to secure a peace of exhaustion in 1917. Millions are still killed by WWI, and blood and treasure is expended en masse.

THE CENTRAL POWERS

• After the war, Germany is left as a military dictatorship. Worse, it is one with no recent experience of military defeat, and an unrivalled position of military supremacy. Like Imperial Japan in OTL, Germany becomes a fascist state, and has plans for another European war.
• Austria Hungary collapses anyway. The government was grinding into inactivity even before the war, and nationalist tensions are just too great. Civil war ensues.
• The Ottoman Empire, strained by war and nationalist revolt, is nevertheless victorious. It starts repressing everyone, because this is meant to be an unpleasant timeline, and I don't know much about them. Damn, where's AHP when you need him? (Well, not really need him in this case, because he'd say that the Ottomans would never hurt a fly, but we digress here.)

THE ENTENTE

• Russia is left as an unstable Republic under the worst possible interpretation of Alexander Kerensky. It eventually falls to either a communist revolution or a fascist state, and wants revenge against Germany.
• France plots revanche against the Germans. Again. With British and American backing, it bides its time and musters its strength...
• Britain is driven to hold on ever more tightly to what it has, resulting in a series of imperial revolts and harsh crackdowns in the 20s and 30s.
• Britain also aligns with Japan as a counterbalance against German imperialist expansion in the Far East, and even gives it backing in a war against the German-backed Chinese Nationalists. Accusations of war crimes committed by the Japanese troops are widespread.

THE LONG TERM

• The world succumbs to a series of bloody wars again, involving a combination of German aggression, Russian world revolution/revenge against Germany, French revenge, and Japanese Imperialism.
• The fate of the colonial empires is much the same as it was in our timeline.
• The USA, still not shaken out of isolationism, looks on appauled at the whole thing.

 

[The Yogi]

In fact, these are the problems with Yogi`s scenario as well. You can`t expect such an outcome with WWI technology; especially the German advances preposed. One could make the opposing sides do better in the early stages, but the war itself can IMO only be ended one or two years in advance.

Why is that? In the "Russia first" scenario I do not postulate that the CP advance very much farther in the first year of war, only that they inflict massive defeats on the Russians during that time, which given that Germany did well even in OTL doesn't seem at all improbable. I think capturing Poland and advancing perhaps up to Riga is entirely doable in that timeframe with the forces alloted (all but three armies).

Why shouldn't Russia be able to see the writing on the wall, say by autumn 1915 and agree to a negotiated peace, perhaps even together with France as to achieve better terms?

 

[Richter von Manthofen]

Funny observation -

there are Germanophobes replying that think Germany will fight anotther war - 100% - no chance to avoid - and MOST IPORTANT OF ALL - ALL GERMANS ARE EVIL

and the

Germanophiles which think that no matter what comes a phase of peace and prosperity will follow... - BECUASE GERMANS ARE THE BEST AND BRAVEST AND MOST HUMAN OF ALL



Of course I took both sides to extremes :..

In my humble opinion - both are correct and wrong in the same degree

Both sides in WWI came to a point where a honorable and survivable peace for the enemy was out of question.

You Know the Treaties of Versailles, St Germain and the rest


They led to the Nazis rising and "revenge" on the defeated parties - and Italy thought itself shorthanded and fell into Fascism itself.

Result WWII with all (lasting) consequences.


IMHO the CPS can only win after a long war (1918+)

In this timeframe we have to expect a peace treaty that is as harsh to UK France and Russia (and especially to Italy and Serbis) as OTLs treaty was to Germany.

(UK might escape in better condition as the others dure to its island fortress)

So instead of the German Dolchstoss we might get a reench/Russian/British equivalent. - and that leads to another war 20+ years later.

The world will be different in many ways

There will be no drain on scientists in the 1930 to Germany, so much of what was invented in the US (and other countries) will now be invented in Germany

The world will be multipolar in stead of bipolar

russia will rise to world power status (as Czarst, Republican or Communist won't matter), Teh US willa los rise and of Course Germany too

So we will probably have 3 power blocks instead of two.

China will be different as I think the Japanese expansion on the 20s and 30s will be directet more economic than military as OTL. So I expect an emerging nationalist instead of of communist china.

Communism might be - just another streak of socialism -

the Holocaust will probably be avoided (I hope) - thus there is no need for Yews to emigtrate to the US/and Israel - so Iyou can assume with the Ottomans staying longer in Palestine that there will be no Israel as we know it. Thus I think Muslim extremism will not be as prevalent as we know it because IMHO the enmity to Israel is the driving forece beghind the creation of this violent straek. No israel thus means muslims won't see the US (and by extension the west) as enemy of the Muslim world (at least not as arch enemy ) - but I might err.

Colonialism might survive longer ("after all we have the Empire"). This might lead to a better or a worse situation in those lands (IMHO later decolonialisation will lead to more "European" educated Africans which might "ease" the birth pains of the African nations) It can be hoped that later decolonisation also leads to more "ethnic" and "religious" borders - preventing much internal bloodshed. - but again it can be worse in unimainable ways too...

that said - I believe we would have a different world that had made different mistakes. Maybe the lessons of Nazi German and the Atomic Bombs at Hiroshima and Nagasaki were necessary to prevent even more horrible things (I shudder if the bombs were developed earlier or their first use became necessary when both sides had them and in larger numbers...)

Conclusion:

As I am Austrian by birth and conviction : If the CPs win the world is the best of all places

 

[Riain]

Germanophiles which think that no matter what comes a phase of peace and prosperity will follow... - BECUASE GERMANS ARE THE BEST AND BRAVEST AND MOST HUMAN OF ALL

If the Germans win there will be a phase of peace and prosperity not because the Germans are brave and human, but because they are the bigger and tougher than the countries they defeated and have to absorb their conquests for a while. I also think the victorious German soldier and his new missus will want a bit of peace and prosperity after fighting for it and demand it from his politicians.

 

[Awilla the Hun]

In some areas, there was a phase of peace and prosperity even in our timeline. It's called the 1920s. It wasn't universal, but I sincerely doubt that it's going to be exactly prosperous in the German satellite states either.