Do you think Greece got shafted after WWI?

Did Greece get shafted after WWI?


  • Total voters
    57

Baby Kata

Banned
Greece's goal was to annex Northern Epirus, Eastern Thrace, Constantinople, and Ionia, and they got none of it, despite being an ally.

Italy's goal was all of Dalmatia, and they got barely any of it, which led to the idea of a "mutilated victory" and revanchism.

Greek revanchism never really took off because of ethnic cleansing.

Do you think Greece got shafted, though?
 
It is exactly the same. You’re trying to revive a failed irredentist politics on a history forum.

Maybe you want to ask, “what if Greek irredentism was significant 1917-1941”?
 

Baby Kata

Banned
It is exactly the same. You’re trying to revive a failed irredentist politics on a history forum.

Maybe you want to ask, “what if Greek irredentism was significant 1917-1941”?

No, I'm not. I'm asking a legitimate historical question.

I think that Greece definitely got shafted after WWI, but at the same time, I think that the more extreme manifestations of "Megali Hellas" were patently absurd.

Greece should have gotten Northern Epirus, Eastern Thrace, Cyprus, and maybe Constantinople and Smyrna.
 
No, I'm not. I'm asking a legitimate historical question.

I think that Greece definitely got shafted after WWI, but at the same time, I think that the more extreme manifestations of "Megali Hellas" were patently absurd.

Greece should have gotten Northern Epirus, Eastern Thrace, Cyprus, and maybe Constantinople and Smyrna.

Why, except nationalist dreams?
 

Baby Kata

Banned
Why, except nationalist dreams?

Northern Epirus, Eastern Thrace, and Cyprus all had a Greek plurality if not outright majority. Constantinople and Smyrna could have gone either way. Honestly, I would have probably put the Greco-Turkish border in the Bosphorus, so that they split Constantinople, and left the Turks with Smyrna, since that way it was Greece in Europe, Turkey in Asia. No land border means less of an opportunity for border trouble.
 

Baby Kata

Banned
they lost a war and thus lost most of their gains so no not really

I mean, yes, they lost, but that doesn't change the fact that the 1923 peace deal shafted them. They could have kept Northern Epirus at least, since Albania is not part of Turkey, and they lost against Turkey.

Britain should have given them Cyprus in the 1950s, when the Cypriots overwhelmingly voted for enosis.
 
I mean, yes, they lost, but that doesn't change the fact that the 1923 peace deal shafted them. They could have kept Northern Epirus at least, since Albania is not part of Turkey, and they lost against Turkey.

Britain should have given them Cyprus in the 1950s, when the Cypriots overwhelmingly voted for enosis.

Well then maybe don't lose wars? if you don't want to get shafted in a peace deal in which you are on the losing side then don't lose
 
I mean, yes, they lost, but that doesn't change the fact that the 1923 peace deal shafted them. They could have kept Northern Epirus at least, since Albania is not part of Turkey, and they lost against Turkey.

Britain should have given them Cyprus in the 1950s, when the Cypriots overwhelmingly voted for enosis.
A vote that was organized by a pro-enosis institution that later proceeded to harass and criticize those who voted against unification
(Heath-Kelly, Charlotte (2013). "Killing in the name: inflicting political injury". Politics of Violence. Routledge. p. 31.)

Pardon me if I stray on the side of skepticism when it comes to this particular referendum.

EDIT: Furthermore, only Greek Cypriots were allowed to cast their ballot. Some vote, this is.
 

manav95

Banned
Well they got shafted due to military reversals. At one point, the Greeks had control of Anatolia as far as near Ankara.
 

Baby Kata

Banned
Well they got shafted due to military reversals. At one point, the Greeks had control of Anatolia as far as near Ankara.

And giving Greece all of Western Asia Minor to Angora was clearly just as unfair to Turkey as OTL's borders are to Greece.
 
Fine, "Do you think that Greece got a raw deal after WWI?"

Happy?

No.

Because that isn't the purpose of this forum. The purpose of this forum is to explore (1) what alternatives to the postwar settlement were politically conceivable? (2) what are plausible POD's for arriving at these alternatives? (3) what would have been the consequences of adopting these alternatives? Deciding what is "fair" or what is a "raw deal" is not our purpose; there are no universally accepted criteria of "fairness" in the postwar settlement, and debating that just gets us into competing nationalisms yelling at each other.
 

manav95

Banned
And giving Greece all of Western Asia Minor to Angora was clearly just as unfair to Turkey as OTL's borders are to Greece.

Well Greece lost the war and thus they didn't get the land they wanted. That's how war is mate. Germany lost almost it's territory from 1913-1945 and got chopped up, but they aren't complaining aside from the neo Nazis.
 

Baby Kata

Banned
Well Greece lost the war and thus they didn't get the land they wanted. That's how war is mate. Germany lost almost it's territory from 1913-1945 and got chopped up, but they aren't complaining aside from the neo Nazis.

Because a genocidal Nazi regime is definitely comparable to a country that was occupied for centuries trying to regain lost lands.
 

Baby Kata

Banned
Why have the recent threads here been about a Greek nationalist’s wet dream lately?

A Greek Nationalist's wet dream would be conquering all of Asia Minor and the Balkans, and sending the Slavs back to the Ukraine and the Turks back to Central Asia.

I haven't seen any threads like that.

(and to make it clear, I don't approve of that idea)
 
Because a genocidal Nazi regime is definitely comparable to a country that was occupied for centuries trying to regain lost lands.
That would be Nazi Germany before they did the genocide.
-Occupied for centuries by bigger neighboring powers? Check.
-Gained full sovereignty less than 100 years ago? Check
-Trying to regain lost lands? Check

Remind me again, what happend to the Muslims/Turks that were inside of Greece after independence or the regions conquered during the Balkans wars? Or what would the Greek policy have been had they achieved their goals?
 
Greece's goal was to annex Northern Epirus, Eastern Thrace, Constantinople, and Ionia, and they got none of it, despite being an ally. Do you think Greece got shafted, though?

Sure they did - as small nations which get drawn into the big boys' wars all too often are. King Constantine was absolutely right to try and keep out of it.
 
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