Dixieland: The Country of Tomorrow, Everyday (yet another Confederate TL)

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by TastySpam, Feb 9, 2019.

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  1. Chris Triangle Triangulator

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2011
    John Sherman administration? Very interesting. Will the Sherman anti-trust act pass as it did IOTL?


    And down South, I like how Forrest is a more complex figure than one would expect. A younger generation is already being born and raised in the indepedent Confederacy and whatever precedents these presidents set are really important.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
  2. TastySpam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2016
    Thanks, I've fixed that.
     
  3. sloreck Grunt Bear

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2008
    Location:
    Midwest
    To add to that, the north even before the war had begun rationalizing different gauges to standard, and that was accelerated by the war. In the south the hodge-podge of gauges remained for decades after the war, and various RR companies and state governments resisted all efforts to standardize during the war.
     
  4. Threadmarks: Chapter 23 - Meiji Democracy

    TastySpam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2016
    Meiji Democracy
    Defeat stung. At no point did the Meiji oligarchs truly plan for victory over the Qing - their original understanding of the war was that the Qing would not get involved in Korea, similar to the failure of the Qing to get involved in the French acquisition of Cochinchina. However, internal Qing politics had radically shifted by 1873, leading to a disastrous war that Japan could not extricate itself easily from. The ploy of wooing the French into the war, as promising as it had seemed, had largely failed. In the end, Japan was forced to throw in the towel and withdraw its forces back to Japan, humiliated.

    Although the oligarchs had enough troops left from the war to suppress any violent revolt - and there were indeed riots in several major Japanese cities in response to the humiliation, recriminations immediately took place between them. The samurai of the Tosa domain were largely blamed for this catastrophe, in particular Itagaki Taisuke. The defeat in Korea was largely used as an excuse by the Choshu and Satsuma oligarchs in an attempt to purge oligarchs from the Tosa clan. This proved to be a mistake. In response to widespread purges of their colleagues, several purged officials joined with angry unemployed samurai, outraged over their loss of status. Although the samurai class had not been officially abolished, all state stipends were abolished alongside the domains and most samurai excluded from the new Imperial Army, which had just been defeated in Korea.

    Horrifying Itagaki, a samurai rebellion exploded in Saga Prefecture, eventually spreading across most of Kyushu, including the former Satsuma domain, where former Daimyo Shimazu Hisamitsu declared support for the rebels. Satsuma was almost immediately lost, much to the horror of the Satsuma oligarchs who saw their former lord declare against them. Much to the horror of the government, a separate rebellion exploded across Tohoku of disaffected former samurai of the pro-Shogunal forces. Their movement was otherwise largely similar to the Kyushu revolt, since the actual Tokugawa family had no interest in retaking power. Eventually, Itagaki declared for the rebels, hoping that he could steer the rebellion from the inside. Convincing the leaders of the rebellions to unify behind a demand, namely to establish a national assembly and a written constitution.

    Morale in the Imperial Army was also exceedingly low, as many had felt they had been withdrawn from Korea despite not actually being defeated in a land battle. As a result, although Imperial forces were dispatched to put down the rebels, defection was common, and after a couple of bloody skirmishes, the two sides found themselves at a standstill. All parties involved were deeply aware that foreign powers were eyeing Japan eagerly, as diplomats from Britain, France, Russia, and the USA quickly asked both sides for additional concessions in return for assistance - the Japanese treasury was remarkably empty after the Korea catastrophe. Seeing that war would be treacherous and that their (former?) friend Itagaki moderated the rebel demands, the central government under Okubo Toshimichi threw in the towel again, agreeing to his demands. Both sides understood that the Imperial Army still had the ability to crush the rebels, but they judged the damage done to Japan would be incalculable. Most of the samurai armies went back to their homes, with the Imperial Army allowed to root out various holdouts who were clearly just into the rebellion as an excuse to loot.

    Behind closed doors, a committee of oligarchs, chiefly Itagaki Taisuke, Okubo Toshimichi, Kido Takayoshi, and Okuma Shigenobu hammered out the new Constitution, primarily inspired by the French Constitution, but also with minor British and American influences.[1] Ito Hirobumi was rather alienated from the committee, viewing their proclivities as too liberal. Bowing to the demands of the rebels, the government was decentralized to some extent (in for example, taxation) and interestingly enough, a constitutional right to bear melee weapons was enshrined largely so samurai could keep their old swords. The powers of the Meiji Emperor were actually strengthened (both sides were ardent defenders of the Imperial system) to more or less run foreign policy at his whim and appoint anyone he liked from either house of Parliament. The new Japanese Parliament was split into the Imperial Assembly, elected first-past-the-post and a new House of Lords. The Assembly more or less only had the power of the purse - more complex lawmaking was placed in the hands of the House of Lords, comprised of the members of the new Kazoku nobility, which coincidentally included all the former daimyo and Meiji oligarchs.

    If Meiji democracy created a conservative House of Lords, the Imperial Assembly was even more reactionary. The first Meiji elections returned an Assembly almost entirely comprised of major landlords, local village-heads, and notable samurai (primarily from formerly revolting areas). The conservatism of the system shocked, but delighted Ito Hirobumi, who switched immediately from being an opponent of Meiji Democracy to a vocal supporter. Although the rebellion was a humiliation to Japan, which quickly drew scorn from abroad, the system did successfully prevent any future samurai rebellions, welding the formerly angry class completely to the Japanese state.

    With Japanese leaders sneering at the "culturally westernized Manchu barbarians", Japan quickly became both a bastion of Confucian scholarship, aligning itself abroad closely with Imperial Russia (which quickly grew to be the Qing's primary foreign enemy, alongsides Japan). Japanese universities would quickly become the leading centers of anti-Manchu sentiment in Asia, as Chinese students tried their best to sneak abroad and study in Japan.
    ---
    [1] OTL, Okubo wanted a British-style system.
     
  5. Lazer_Pages I hate Illinois Nazis

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    Oct 7, 2017
    Seems like japan is moving down a very self destructive path, perhaps one even worse then otl.
     
  6. Jürgen Well-Known Member

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    Jul 16, 2016
    Discovered this timeline yesterday, and read through it, I like it. I do have a few thoughts.

    1: I think you’re going the right place with the CSA army, when I read I see pretty much how the Egyptian army control much of the Egypt economy, by owning major companies. I agree that we will see the army becoming the main career path for poor White Southerners, I can also see the planter class losing interest in military careers, as they begin to see officer career end goal as being little more than industrial managers, leaving this path to non-planters destroying the planters influence in the army. Next I don’t see the military owned industry using many slaves, to large extent I see a focus from the military to make work for former soldiers and their families, and the few works to dirty for them, I could see them free Blacks work those, as working for the army controlled industries gives free Blacks some protection from being kidnapped.

    2: With Mexico being more stable and the strong connections to Austria-Hungary, I could see it becoming a major emigration target, I could easily see the Mexican north becoming majority European.

    3: I think there’s two interesting aspect with African American ones, is that I could see many free Blacks continue to emigrate abroad,Liberia could see a new wave of immigrants. The other aspect which we often overlook, under slavery 1 in 20 of every generation of African American had a White father, as such every generation of slaves result in 5% increased European admixture, I think it’s likely that with that we see a stronger split between biracials and African American with minor admixture when Slavery at some point ends.
     
  7. DAv Middle Class... sorry

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Location:
    England
    Japan looks like it's going to really go down the militaristic route with the Samurai having much more of a say in this timeline. Plus, constitutionally enshrined melee weapons should be... interesting.
     
  8. M79 Well-Known Member

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    Jan 8, 2007
    Confederates go Green with recycling for National Security?
     
  9. PNWKing There's Still Hope Out There!

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    Oct 19, 2016
    With Japan being the way it is, will companies like Nikon, Mitsubishi, and the like even exist.
     
  10. TastySpam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2016
    By and large, all the people running Japan are interestingly the same people (the Meiji oligarchs dominate Parliament), yet there are some pretty big butterflies. First economically, Mitsubishi probably took a big loss because many of the ships used in the Japanese invasion of Korea were destroyed. OTL, they made a killing from the Japanese expedition to Taiwan and the defeat of the Satsuma rebellion. ITL, they lose a lot of money in those and while still existing, probably don't development into the giant zaibatsu as OTL. The other big zaibatsu of Japan, Mitsui, is probably still around. They were less tied to shipping and more tied to coal development and industrialization, which is more or less the same as OTL. Also, I am not biased towards Mitsui even though they have given me lots of nice freebies throughout the years.

    The big influence here is really culture. The other effect is of course, actual inclusion of the samurai into politics ironically significantly weakens the "bushido" mythos. "Bushido" or at least how we understand it, was largely a constructed myth of the Meiji period. The word was basically not often used until Nitobe Inazo published his "Bushido: the Soul of Japan", which revived popularity in the Hagakure, a book about bushido that was not actually read by samurai (it was more a book of how some guy thought samurai ought to be). Similarly, the incident that really revived seppuku was the sad and unusual (easily butterflied out) tale of General Nogi Maresuke. General Nogi commanded Japanese forces in the Russo-Japanese War and although Japan won (making him a national hero), the death toll was incredibly high (significantly higher than the Russians) - the Japanese actually did more or less overrun the Russians in bloody human wave attacks. In addition to the guilt of the death toll, General Nogi was a family man by all accounts and he sadly had to bury both of his sons, who were killed while serving under his command. The Meiji Emperor explicitly forbade him from committing suicide, so he committed suicide immediately after the Meiji Emperor died. This obviously became a huge story in Japan that really caught everyone's attention and revived seppuku. Without the Russo-Japanese War (or something like it), seppuku doesn't make a comeback.

    The other major difference is Shintoism as we understand it probably won't exist. Japanese Buddhism is of course, like almost all Buddhism, syncretic. In Tibet, Buddhism syncretized with Tibetan folk religion (Bon). In China, Buddhism syncretized with Chinese folk religion. And in Japan, Buddhism syncretized with Japanese folk religion (Shinto). What we call Shinto was not considered a religion in most of Japanese history, but rather just as a part of Buddhism. The Meiji Government artificially separated the two in order to create the imperial cult of State Shinto. OTL, the Buddhist monks were flipping outraged over this. In Japan's new "democracy" (aka local elites ruling over Rotten Boroughs), one of the most influential local elites are Buddhist priests, who have as their first priority integrating Buddhism and Shintoism again. This has pretty big implications - for example, the notion of the Emperor as a God is very hard to sustain under State Buddhism.
     
  11. Threadmarks: Chapter 24 - The United States Presidential Election, 1876

    TastySpam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2016
    The United States Presidential Election, 1876
    As the votes were counted across the country, it became increasingly obvious to most observers that the election was going to be another nailbiter. In many ways, the 1876 election was a re-run of 1872, with much weaker regional disparities. John Sherman hadn't ended the circulation of greenbacks as many rural farmers had feared and although the National Unionists largely triumphed in the West, they triumphed by a far smaller margin than last time. In addition, New England, once a Republican bastion, stomped towards the National Unionists despite the Republicans continuing to win almost every state in New England outside of Massachusetts. In the House, incumbents from both parties lost their seats as many safe seats depolarized. Although President Sherman was not a beloved president, he was not hated either. Charles Adams was also personally popular.

    After all the votes were counted, Republicans had surged in the House, going from 38% of the chamber to roughly 47%. In contrast, Democrats, with their support in the small Western states, continued chipping away at the massive Republican Senate majority, going from 34% of the Senate to 46%.

    Once again in a rerun of 1876, the popular vote margin was razor thin, but the fact that the National Union Party piled up massive margins in the border states lead to a moderate, but secure Republican advantage in the electoral college.

    [​IMG]

    President Sherman, seeing a severe clawback from the Republican defeat in 1874, nevertheless was worried by what seemed by a regional divide, including the weakness of the Republican Party in the Border States and West. Trying to avoid divisive chiefly (chiefly the issue of Civil Service Reform), President Sherman decided to focus policy on economic growth, cordial relations with the South, and Western expansion.
     
  12. M79 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    I'd be curious to see how gun control laws evolve
     
  13. Chris Triangle Triangulator

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2011
    I just remembered that a lot of these territories are still not states. If the US admits the remaining 9 Western territories as states, they alone will make up one quarter of the resulting senate.

    Also, fewer of the people migrating out there will be of Southern backgrounds than IOTL thanks to the border and so that might have some subtle impact on local politics.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019 at 2:51 PM
  14. TastySpam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2016
    Well, this entire article probably gets butterflied out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Americans_in_Omaha,_Nebraska
     
    Gabingston likes this.
  15. traveller76 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2006
    Location:
    Fort Worth, TX
    The railroad companies sponsored a lot of immigration from Europe in order to create markets in the West.
     
    Alpha-King98760 likes this.
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