Dixie Divided: Unionist states carved out after the ACW

What if the United State decided to break apart various former Confederate States to carve out Unionist states? Examples include East Tennesee, North Alabama, parts of North Carolina, Texas and Missippi. How many states could be gerrymandered out of them and how would that have changed the post-war South?
 
I suspect that East Tennessee and West NC would be the same state, or perhaps united with W. Virginia to form the state of Appalachia.

Union and Liberty has a few of these new states.


I don't think they would unite it with W. Virginia as the Republicans would want as many states as possible to get more senate seats and electorial votes. They would have to be states of viable size though. They might unite East TN and West NC though. It depends on how large they think the states need to be to be viable.
 

Thande

Donor
Besides the areas with white unionist support you mention in the OP, what about black majority states being set up--states within the US, that is, not as in independent homelands.
 
Besides the areas with white unionist support you mention in the OP, what about black majority states being set up--states within the US, that is, not as in independent homelands.
I remember that in the map challenge Through a Glass, Darkly there were a map that shows an division and occupation of the South. Should I get it to show it?
 
Besides the areas with white unionist support you mention in the OP, what about black majority states being set up--states within the US, that is, not as in independent homelands.


Too radical as too many people up North would be upset over Black rule but if there were areas bordering the White Unionist areas that had a lot of slaves before the war they could be brought into those areas and make sure their right to vote is strictly enforced. Not enough of the to make a majority but enough to increase the Republican count in the House.
 

EricM

Banned
Wasn't this precisely what Sen. Charles Sumner suggested? Just carve up new states out of the conquered South and electorally split up the troublemakers?
 
It's sort of funny because I was thinking that breaking up the old states and creating new states in their place would be implausible. I am interested in finding out what sort of divisions can happen.
 
It's sort of funny because I was thinking that breaking up the old states and creating new states in their place would be implausible. I am interested in finding out what sort of divisions can happen.

There were decent sized areas with large Unionist sentiment, particularly in the mountains where slavery is unprofitable. With the Union army sitting on the Southern states the US can do pretty much what it wants. Who is going to stop it?
 

Thande

Donor
It's sort of funny because I was thinking that breaking up the old states and creating new states in their place would be implausible.

I assume you're basing that on the idea that Americans are strongly attached to their state identities. The OTL proposals mentioned were predicated on just that sentiment--as well as being simple pragmatism, they were based on the idea that, as traitors to the union, the States of the CSA should have their very identities destroyed, their pages torn out of history, and new states should be created to take their place.
 
I assume you're basing that on the idea that Americans are strongly attached to their state identities. The OTL proposals mentioned were predicated on just that sentiment--as well as being simple pragmatism, they were based on the idea that, as traitors to the union, the States of the CSA should have their very identities destroyed, their pages torn out of history, and new states should be created to take their place.

Oh now I had thought of it. Various times actually but I didn't think it merited much discussion since I think everyone would come down on me for posting what I thought to be an implausible idea.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
South Carolina would be gutted, probably split between Georgia and North Carolina.

I could see a State of Franklin emerging in East Tennessee-West North Carolina.

Texas will probably be trisected.
 
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EricM

Banned
I assume you're basing that on the idea that Americans are strongly attached to their state identities. The OTL proposals mentioned were predicated on just that sentiment--as well as being simple pragmatism, they were based on the idea that, as traitors to the union, the States of the CSA should have their very identities destroyed, their pages torn out of history, and new states should be created to take their place.

I always thought about this when Gov. Perry made that mistake about Texas having the right to leave The Union (When as we all know it had the right to subdivide.)
When the south seceded wouldn't any rules set when they were initially admitted have been null & voided when they seceded? That for example The TX, VA, GA, etc that exist now are not the same TX, VA, GA that existed in 1860?
 
I always thought about this when Gov. Perry made that mistake about Texas having the right to leave The Union (When as we all know it had the right to subdivide.)
When the south seceded wouldn't any rules set when they were initially admitted have been null & voided when they seceded? That for example The TX, VA, GA, etc that exist now are not the same TX, VA, GA that existed in 1860?

Yes, they are, as during the war the Federal Government considered the ceceeding states to be "states in rebellion" (wayward family members so to say) not as former states of the union.
 
South Carolina would be gutted, probably split between Georgia and North Carolina.

I could see a State of Franklin emerging in East Tennessee-West North Carolina.

Texas will probably be trisected.

Yeah, I can't see SC surviving. Texas may well be trisected and certainly turned into at least two states as there was a farily large area around Austin that had Unionist sympathies.
 
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