Discussion on Terrorism, September 11th and what could have happened

[The Ubbergeek]

IAN is the mod. End of the line.

It's not a public place where the right to speech apply. He decides who stay, who go, and even if I would be peeved if he told me 'ban', it's his power.

I like mods to be impartial - and he is quite so, but he is the master here after God at the end. So, I should not complain, but abide by his rules. And so you.

 

[Ian the Admin]

IAN is the mod. End of the line.

Oh will people quit with this "it's his board so shut up" crap. This is a community of *several hundred* people, many of whom have dedicated quite a lot of time to it. Everybody has, at the very least, the right to complain if they don't like how it's being run.

And since I do try and make this site a useful and interesting place to be, but unfortunately lack psychic powers, people should let me know if they think something's not quite right.

Preferably in a specific and helpful way rather than with vague gripes. Thanks to EmptyOne for taking the time to make an informed suggestion. I might try it at some point. Then again, realistically, it'd be a pain in the ass to keep track of two different accounts and remember which one I'm logged in as.

 

[EvolvedSaurian]

Frankly this smacks of people ranting about a "vast left-wing conspiracy". The people complaining about lefties getting more lenient treatment *don't report the alleged posts*, and are always conspicuously silent when I ask for examples.

That's addressed at me, no? I haven't been around Chat much lately.

 

[orbeyonde]

I just read through this this entire post and I have to say I am really surprised at the reaction of people here.

Its perfectlly ok to imagine a world where hitler won and hundreds of millions of people were put to death, but god forbid you post anything about a stronger reaction to 9/11?

As a person who lived only 4 blocks from the trade center on 9/11, a person who at first thought his wife might die that day, a person who later found out a friend did die that day, I gotta tell you I had plenty of very angry feelings that day. I was wishing that Bush would fire nukes on mecca and medina and trust me I was not the only one wishing for that in the days after 9/11.

Do I believe that today? Of course not. But is it so out of the realm of AH possiblity that the President was so incencsed that day that he could have ordered the firing of tactical nukes on Saudia Arabia and Afghanistan? I think not.

The banning that occured here was ridiculous.

 

[Susano]

You apparently have NOT read the post in question, where Aldroud CALLED FOR use of a nuke. There was no WI stipulated at that post, it was an opinion on the real world calling for the use of a nuke.

Read it again.

 

[Max Sinister]

Whose banning? Aldroud's?

The problem isn't people posting that Dubya may have fired nukes on Mecca and Medina (BTW, WTH do some people think this was a good idea? Would they also advocate that Germany, Russia and China are nuked until they glow green, because Hitler, Stalin and Mao reigned in these countries?), the problem is that some of these people seem to think that this really was a good idea if done IRL, OTL. That's the danger.

 

[Grimm Reaper]

Actually orbeyonde hit the nail on the head with his emphasis on opinion in the days after 9/11 and opinion today.

Yes, we are all well aware that 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi but it has been sufficiently well-established that the Saudi government was not behind it so, in effect, this was a cool-headed proposal to launch a nuclear strike on a nation long after it was clear that the target-nation was NOT responsible for the crime under discussion

The issue of targeting Islamic holy centers, instead of the Saudi capital city and oil fields, when your grievance is supposedly with the kingdom of Saudi Arabia is yet another matter.

If I might add, Max, how about someone advocating that because Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, we should nuke China?

 

[Ian the Admin]

That's addressed at me, no? I haven't been around Chat much lately.

Not everything's about you. Every so often somebody makes such an accusation.

 

[EvolvedSaurian]

Not everything's about you. Every so often somebody makes such an accusation.

I have made such accusations though, so thanks for the reminder.

 

[Darkest]

Evidence

I am a left-wing poster. I mean, I support communism, for goodness sakes! How left do you want to go?

I have respectfully posted about my opinions on war, in the past, I am sure everyone knows this. I was quite a jingoist. Since then I have changed my views, not because of anyone telling me anything, but just because my personality changes on a whim, probably due to a lack of self-identity (or the lack of needing an identity...).

Anyway, ignoring all of the stuff about me, I was a left-wing poster, and I advocated the third world war. My thread was closed, and not locked. I wasn't even given an official warning!

I hope the Admin will not ban me now due to those actions, because I was in a strange mood then. But, I did act as such, and I did get away with it. And I am left-wing.

On the other side, ignoring this whole factoid argument, I would like to say that I like Ian quite a bit, and I wish he would post more. Do some more AH. Seriously, this is truthful, I'm not trying to suck up or anything, if you'll believe that.

 

[Fyrwulf]

Wow... Um... I'm not quite sure what to say about Aldroud's post. I typically don't have a problem coldly analyzing the instances in which the use of nuclear weapons might be plausible or even acceptable, but that post shocked me. Actually, I think that's the first time I've read somebody actually advocate a, "Fuck the world, just nuke somebody" policy. Morally repugnant, militarily ineffective, and advocating the waste of a perfectly good weapon. Geez, he managed to hit on everybody's buttons with only a paragraph.

 

[Leo Caesius]

I've heard plenty of people advocating such a thing, but rarely have I heard such insane talk coming from a self-professed veteran of Iraq with a few college degrees and practical experience interning with the diplomatic corps abroad and the Republican party at home. I'd like to think that he was just trolling for a response and not entirely serious about what he was suggesting.

 

[NapoleonXIV]

I've heard plenty of people advocating such a thing, but rarely have I heard such insane talk coming from a self-professed veteran of Iraq with a few college degrees and practical experience interning with the diplomatic corps abroad and the Republican party at home. I'd like to think that he was just trolling for a response and not entirely serious about what he was suggesting.

Self-professed is the key here. I think that Aldroud's resume was as padded as the cell he should be in. Not every delusional personality is as obvious as Fernidad.

 

[Jbenuniv]

I frown on nuking random targets, but it seems to me that the whole premise of this thread was . . . . well I can't find the right word, but I think you get it.

It is pretty easy to understand how, in the aftermath of 9/11, someone could advocate nuking someone, but to suggest that it would have been good or something or to advocate doing it now is stupid.

Also, the idea of the admin having a separate account for personal opinions sounds like a good idea. Just my thoughts

 

[Darkest]

There are PLENTY of people that advocate the nuking of the rest of the world. I live in a diverse school in California, and much of my fellow classmate's have political opinions summing up to just that.

I hear it all the time. Why should we stand for that? Just nuke them all until they stop. We're a careless and unsympathetic generation.

 

[Burton K Wheeler]

Self-professed is the key here. I think that Aldroud's resume was as padded as the cell he should be in. Not every delusional personality is as obvious as Fernidad.

I don't know if he was fake or not, but I have met people with similar backgrounds to what he claimed who might actually say similar things. I don't know if he actually believes in nuclear genocide as a show of force or if he was trolling, but either way, it doesn't reflect well on the U.S. military or government.

 

[Flocculencio]

There are PLENTY of people that advocate the nuking of the rest of the world. I live in a diverse school in California, and much of my fellow classmate's have political opinions summing up to just that.

I hear it all the time. Why should we stand for that? Just nuke them all until they stop. We're a careless and unsympathetic generation.

It's ok if teenagers say stuff like that- they know not what they do, after all. It's like birds squawking

When someone who to the best of our knowledge is a professional member of the US military establishment espouses the same opinions it's a bit more worrying.

 

[Ian the Admin]

Self-professed is the key here. I think that Aldroud's resume was as padded as the cell he should be in. Not every delusional personality is as obvious as Fernidad.

He's posted from Jordan, chesty.iraq.centcom.mil (which is located in Columbus but probably services Iraq), clayton.state.gov (State Department), and norwich.edu, along with various residential locations across the US.

 

[Ian the Admin]

Evidence

Anyway, ignoring all of the stuff about me, I was a left-wing poster, and I advocated the third world war. My thread was closed, and not locked. I wasn't even given an official warning!

Checking the thread, you claimed a naive liking for war in general. "I like war" isn't quite the same as saying that innocent people should be slaughtered en masse.

 

[orbeyonde]

Checking the thread, you claimed a naive liking for war in general. "I like war" isn't quite the same as saying that innocent people should be slaughtered en masse.

So is stating that in the grand scheme of things the atomic bombing of hiroshima and nagasaki were good things a reason to get kicked off this site?

that was the wholesale destruction of hundreds of thousands of innocent people. The other option was the land invasion of Japan that would have resulted in miilions of additional deaths.

So in my opinion, that en masse slaughter of innocent people was a good thing.

Will I be banned now?