Discussion: If Hillary is nominated, does she pick Obama as VP?

According to Game Change Ted Strickland and Evan Bayh topped her list. But could she have chosen Obama, or would he have declined for similar reasons to Hillary's IOTL.
 
Accepting would have been disastrous for Obama - much more so than Clinton's accepting his offer. But it still would have helped her. (Her being on his ticket would have hurt him.)
 
Obama would probably though ended up as Hillary's choice for the Supreme Court ahead of Sotomayor who then would have been Hillary's second pick
 
I think she would have picked Bayh-He had already endorsed her, and he was generic enough to not be perceived as a threat, or too exotic as a VP. That would also win her Indiana, and the Midwest.

Obama would have gotten something in a Clinton Administration-Maybe Attorney General? Supreme Court also could have been an option.
 
I don't think SCOTUS would ever be considered, especially with the partisanship these days. Hillary is not going to have a Borking in her first year as President. Obama's never been a judge among other things. AG is a different story, but that would mean giving up his presidential ambitions: no one can move from an appointed Cabinet post to the Presidency. There would also have to be some ego trimming on both sides, especially for such an important domestic portfolio that can easily become politicized. Hillary can just keep Obama in storage as Vice President, thus rendering his 2016 chances between zero and nil.
 
Picking the runner-up doesn't always work well. JFK-LBJ is rather infamous, and Reagan-Bush wasn't always hunky-dory either.
 
I don't think SCOTUS would ever be considered, especially with the partisanship these days. Hillary is not going to have a Borking in her first year as President. Obama's never been a judge among other things. AG is a different story, but that would mean giving up his presidential ambitions: no one can move from an appointed Cabinet post to the Presidency. There would also have to be some ego trimming on both sides, especially for such an important domestic portfolio that can easily become politicized. Hillary can just keep Obama in storage as Vice President, thus rendering his 2016 chances between zero and nil.

Allen Drury had a Secretary of State run for President and win in his "Advise and Consent" series of novels in the 1960's and early 1970's, but he had a lot of other strange stuff, some approaching ASB levels, going on in those books too, notwithstanding that he was a longtime Washington political correspondent.
 
Is UT2020 ever gunna shut up?

I don't think SCOTUS would ever be considered, especially with the partisanship these days. Hillary is not going to have a Borking in her first year as President. Obama's never been a judge among other things. AG is a different story, but that would mean giving up his presidential ambitions: no one can move from an appointed Cabinet post to the Presidency. There would also have to be some ego trimming on both sides, especially for such an important domestic portfolio that can easily become politicized. Hillary can just keep Obama in storage as Vice President, thus rendering his 2016 chances between zero and nil.


Gee, I feel bad, RogueBeaver, because I was totally in your corner on the Newfoundland thread.:eek: Actually, I wonder how many people out there realize that NEITHER Hillary NOR Barack EVER considered the other as a VP.

The Electoral College ALONE would determine that. Both have very strong ties to Illinois. New York and Hawaii were a mortal lock anyway, and Hillary wasn't bringing in Arkansas. Both would be looking for people who could bring in fresh states that wouldn't be carried (perhaps) otherwise. "Battleground/Purple" states, basically.

Also, the feelings exacerbated during the campaign by the media (pro-Obama/anti-Hillary) showed that the elite media had learned NOTHING from the 2000 election. Hillary was in a "damned if you do/damned if you don't" situation. People like NBC's Chris Matthews talked about the "thrilling feeling that went up my leg when I hear Obama speak". In a sane world of journalism, he should have been fired at once. But with the constant wave of invective coming the other way for Bush from Fox News, Matthews' statement eventually disappeared into the background static. Even FOX NEWS rose up in Hillary's defense on their program "Fox News Watch", a program designed to criticize misdeeds in the media, except Fox, since of course they don't make any.:rolleyes:

In the NBC debate the "moderators" were Matthews and the late Tim Russert. Russert seemed to think that his being a resident of New York State entitled him not to merely question Senator Clinton, but heckle her like he was a member of the audience in a townhall meeting! Indeed, it's said by most political experts that it was his deliberate and obnoxious joint tag-teaming with the Republican candidate Rick Lazio against Hillary in what was supposed to be an equally moderated debate in 2000 that secured her victory and the start of her career in the Senate.:cool: Again, they'd learned nothing. They asked every question to Hillary first, allowing Barack to piggyback his answers on top of Hillary's like there was no tomorrow. Meaning questions where he simply didn't have the background to answer directly himself. As one Fox commentator said, quite truthfully, there was a question on Russia that would have left Barack absolutely flatfooted but for that Hillary had already responded, so all he simply had to do was respond to the response.

This so-called debate was redone on Saturday Night Live, and all I can say is check Youtube or the NBC/SNL site, it's hilarious.

But getting back to the main point. Hillary could not be VP not only for hard feelings (Which both of them realized were media-driven), not only because of the Electoral College, but because of Bill. It's been reported that when Barack offered the job of SecState, she initially turned it down. ONLY because she couldn't assure the President-Elect with any confidence that there wouldn't be more scandals, more bimbos. Obama was determined, however. He was following in Lincoln's steps. He WANTED VERY BADLY TO GET HIS POLITICAL RIVALS into the White House big tent.:) We all know what happened.

As far as Obama in a Hillary Administration? Unfortunately, the US doesn't have the high powered office of "Home Secretary", because he'd be a natural. Once upon a time, we had the Secretary of HEW, but that's been broken up into it's component parts. The Departments that come to mind for Obama would definitely be second-tier, simply because he doesn't have the experience for the higher offices. Urban Development, Labor, Health and Human Services, and the Department of Education.:eek:

Through no fault of her own, Hillary just doesn't have the office to offer Barack that wouldn't be an insult or perhaps lead to a "Borking". BTW, to be "Borked" requires more than a vicious partisan reception. It requires the prospective nominee to address the (Advise and Consent) Judiciary Committee (or whichever is the appropriate committee) in the proper words to set the legislators in the mood. I refer to the Ancient Roman Emperor Gaius Caligula Caesar: "PROSTRATE THYSELF BEFORE THY GOD!":eek:

If Barack lost, he'd have been better to wait 4 to 8 years. He would have had plenty of time.;)
 
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Red Wolf

Banned
Well, for starters, the question would be how Hillary wins the nomination.

If she wins via the super-delagates as she was desperately hoping, unless Obama agrees to become her VP she's sunk.

If she'd won this way, Obama's supporters, particularly his black ones would have been furious and would have seen this as an example of their guy getting robbed of the victory.

What would have been particularly damaging is that most blacks would have seen this as one more instance of a black man following all the rules and when he was about to win, the game was changed to allow the well-connected, wealthy white person to win.

Blacks would have stayed home in droves rather than voter for Hillary over McCain and the same would have happened with young people.

The only way to stop this would have been Obama accepting her VP nomination, but there's absolutely no way he'd agree to it. In fact, the Clintons would be lucky if Obama uttered more than the most tepid, luke-warm endorsement of Hillary's nomination.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he said something like, "Well, I'm a loyal democrat so I'll vote for Hillary, but I think it would be presumptious of me to tell the millions of Americans who supported me whom to vote for" or words to that effect that would cause members of the McCain campaign to high-five each other.
 
Well, for starters, the question would be how Hillary wins the nomination.

If she wins via the super-delagates as she was desperately hoping, unless Obama agrees to become her VP she's sunk.

If she'd won this way, Obama's supporters, particularly his black ones would have been furious and would have seen this as an example of their guy getting robbed of the victory.

What would have been particularly damaging is that most blacks would have seen this as one more instance of a black man following all the rules and when he was about to win, the game was changed to allow the well-connected, wealthy white person to win.

Blacks would have stayed home in droves rather than voter for Hillary over McCain and the same would have happened with young people.

The only way to stop this would have been Obama accepting her VP nomination, but there's absolutely no way he'd agree to it. In fact, the Clintons would be lucky if Obama uttered more than the most tepid, luke-warm endorsement of Hillary's nomination.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he said something like, "Well, I'm a loyal democrat so I'll vote for Hillary, but I think it would be presumptious of me to tell the millions of Americans who supported me whom to vote for" or words to that effect that would cause members of the McCain campaign to high-five each other.
Sadly, stealing elections has been going on almost as long as the republic has existed. John Quincy Adams, Rutherford B. Hayes, Benjamin Harrison, Woodrow Wilson[Innocent] (Taft stole the Republican nomination from Teddy Roosevelt, splitting the vote and giving the election to the Democrat Wilson), and George W. Bush. Flamers may fire, and who knows, maybe George IS right, maybe his Presidency WILL be rehabilitated. But how he got there is another matter. Stolen elections are stolen elections. The judgement of history has remained unchanged in the 186 years since John Quincy Adams' election, and all the sordid elections after him. No stolen election President has ever even been judged mediocre, never mind above average.

If Hillary stole Barack's election, she would be entering a nightmare worse by far than Bill's Impeachment. She herself would be guilty, with a smudge stain on her record that would never go away. Without a propaganda network backing her up, she wouldn't even make it through the 2012 primaries!
 
Despite what Sarah Palin said in her announcement speech, Hilary Clinton is not a gracious woman. Her campaign attacked Obama a great deal, though the harshness was less than the 2000 attacks on McCain by Bush. She'd very likely oppose Obama getting the nod for almost any position. She could win- after all, America was sick of Bush, McCain was old, and almost anyone could outdebate Sarah Palin (including (ugh) Biden...). Still, the election would be far closer, and she had a great deal of baggage.
As for the African-American vote in this scenario, they'd likely rally behind one of their own- Former Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney (Green). THIS could be a future gamechanger, with possibly over 5% of the vote (say hello to matching funds) and DC's 3 Electors, it could put the Greens on the map nationwide.
 
no one can move from an appointed Cabinet post to the Presidency.

RFK came close to attempting just that if he had not been killed, though he moved into the senate in 1965.

The only way to stop this would have been Obama accepting her VP nomination, but there's absolutely no way he'd agree to it. In fact, the Clintons would be lucky if Obama uttered more than the most tepid, luke-warm endorsement of Hillary's nomination.

That is true if if Obama grabbed an OTL lead and Hillary made a surge on Super Tuesday. If Hillary had emerged the front runner starting with Iowa, the animosity would not have been there. I thought it was interesting that prior to the Iowa caucuses, the Clinton signs said "president" while the Obama signs only said "Obama '08."
 
As for the African-American vote in this scenario, they'd likely rally behind one of their own- Former Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney (Green). THIS could be a future gamechanger, with possibly over 5% of the vote (say hello to matching funds) and DC's 3 Electors, it could put the Greens on the map nationwide.

That sounds completely crazy to me.

Sadly, stealing elections has been going on almost as long as the republic has existed. John Quincy Adams, Rutherford B. Hayes, Benjamin Harrison, Woodrow Wilson[Innocent] (Taft stole the Republican nomination from Teddy Roosevelt, splitting the vote and giving the election to the Democrat Wilson), and George W. Bush.

You missed someone whose name rhymes with "Bohn Schennedy." ;)
 
Mark: I don't doubt that for a minute if LBJ/HHH are killed in '64, but different circumstances. Hillary would never allow Obama to be a de facto Prime Minister like Robert Kennedy was.

TSG: It's one thing to be a de facto PM, another to be forcibly confined to your official post and nothing else. Re 1960: yes, Hizzonor performed his usual "magic", but that's still 276 Democratic EV.
 
That sounds completely crazy to me.



You missed someone whose name rhymes with "Bohn Schennedy." ;)
I wanted to include JFK, except people forget the Illinois Republicans to the south of Chicago had just as big a graveyard turnout as Chicago. Daley's swagger just produced more attention. It's easier for reporters to cover crooked balloting in a large city than to fan out over such a large state in suburb and rural areas. JFK/Nixon was basically a wash, except in 1960 the media propaganda network was on Kennedy's side (mostly).
 
Depends on how she gets the nomination. If it's rather breezy, I doubt that she does--she probably opts for Strickland or Richardson. If not, then Obama is more plausible, in my book.
 
The media were not just in the bag for the Dems, they were actual social friends of the Kennedys. Even more interestingly, they contributed to their political speeches. Different era, different SOPs. There's that, but you'd be "in the bag" if your private memos found their way to a certain individual whose a) friendship you desired b) could deploy Edna's resources. ;) And no, they didn't end up there by accident either.
 
Depends on how she gets the nomination. If it's rather breezy, I doubt that she does--she probably opts for Strickland or Richardson. If not, then Obama is more plausible, in my book.

Let's say she invests more money in Iowa and has money that extends beyond Super Tuesday. Then Hillary wipes the floor with Obama. Remember, 2007 polls showed her leading him 2-1, even with a substantial lead among black voters.
 
Even if she did offer it, Obama wouldn't take it. Or a cabinet post, most likely -- he'd stay as Senator, and wait for 2016.
 
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