Discussion: Comparing British and German industries 1900-1940

Thomas1195

Banned
a9dn9R0_700b_v2.jpg


A short summary of Germany's situation in ww1. Well, the image lacked Bulgaria and Ottoman
 

Thomas1195

Banned
Well, based on several recent threads about "The third superpower'', I realize that if British economy in general and industry in particular were stronger than IOTL, with better industrial relation before ww2, they would be less broke after the war. The interwar period, especially the 1920s, was absolutely a lost decade due to austerity policy had kept growth below potential. I mean, the various economic and industrial weaknesses I mentioned above made "The Third Superpower" dream ASB.
 

Thomas1195

Banned
If Bulgaria had, had the choice the war would have lacked it too ;)
The image pointed out that Entente still needed the US to defeat Germany and Austria, despite Austria's lousy performance on battlefield, which forced German army to be the main fighting troops on both fronts. A better performance from Austria would mean that Germany only have to leave a much smaller army to support A-H (like the BEF supported the French during 1914-1916) and concentrate on the Western Front.
 

hipper

Banned
https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/no-u-s-involvement-in-ww2.410983/
No US involvement in ww2.
Well, Britain would have to throw the white towel no later than 1943.

Unlike Germany, Britain's chemical industry was not advanced enough to produce synthetic oil and rubber from coal.

Now you are just trolling

In 1931, the British Department of Scientific and Industrial Research located in Greenwich, England set up a small facility where hydrogen gas was combined with coal at extremely high pressures to make a synthetic fuel.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...sult&ct=result&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=true
 

Thomas1195

Banned
In 1931, the British Department of Scientific and Industrial Research located in Greenwich, England set up a small facility where hydrogen gas was combined with coal at extremely high pressures to make a synthetic fuel.
Upscale the production would be an entirely different problem. Assume that British output reached German output of synthetic oil IOTL (extremely unlikely since German chemical industry was much more advanced and had experience from ww1), they would not produce enough to substitute US imports.
 

BooNZ

Banned
The image pointed out that Entente still needed the US to defeat Germany and Austria, despite Austria's lousy performance on battlefield, which forced German army to be the main fighting troops on both fronts.
German dimplomatic incompetence resulted in the Germany military failing to work with or co-ordinating its military plans with its only significant ally in A-H. Subsequently, German strategic incompetence resulted in Germany abandoning A-H to search out a quick victory against the French, a goal that even the German high command deemed highly unlikely. Consequently in the openign months of the war, the fighting potential of A-H was maimed for the balance of the war. Despite this, it ordinarily provided the majority of the troops on the Eastern, Italian and Macedonian Fronts. This can be contrasted with Britian that worked closely with its closest ally and ensured the French survival in the opening months of the war.
A better performance from Austria would mean that Germany only have to leave a much smaller army to support A-H (like the BEF supported the French during 1914-1916) and concentrate on the Western Front.
As outlined above, the British managed to preserve much of the fighting potential of the French army, through timely intervention of the BEF. In contrast, the German miscalculations mean they spend the balance of the war propping up its only significant ally. It should be noted before the war that A-H had the fourth most powerful army in the world and was the fourth largest manufactucturer of machine tools, so it had huge potential...
 

Thomas1195

Banned
German dimplomatic incompetence resulted in the Germany military failing to work with or co-ordinating its military plans with its only significant ally in A-H. Subsequently, German strategic incompetence resulted in Germany abandoning A-H to search out a quick victory against the French, a goal that even the German high command deemed highly unlikely. Consequently in the openign months of the war, the fighting potential of A-H was maimed for the balance of the war. Despite this, it ordinarily provided the majority of the troops on the Eastern, Italian and Macedonian Fronts. This can be contrasted with Britian that worked closely with its closest ally and ensured the French survival in the opening months of the war.
I mean German industrial power allowed it to hold on for nearly 5 years and even knocked out Russia, despite having mediocre allies and being placed into a strategically disadvantaged position.
 
I mean German industrial power allowed it to hold on for nearly 5 years and even knocked out Russia, despite having mediocre allies and being placed into a strategically disadvantaged position.

You mean just over four years and here is the thing, if I launch an offensive war and find myself "holding on" I do not give myself pats on the back.
 

Thomas1195

Banned
Kick
You mean just over four years and here is the thing, if I launch an offensive war and find myself "holding on" I do not give myself pats on the back.
Things would have been vastly different if German won the Race to the sea (which was entirely possible) and reach the Channel. Well, big coastal guns would be installed, together with subs and destroyers, would disrupt British shipping massively, and HSF could lure the Grand Fleet to make to sortie there, with the support from newly installed coastal guns. Also, it would be quite fun to see lots of British troopships carrying BEF soldiers and weapons being sunk.
 

hipper

Banned
Things would have been vastly different if German won the Race to the sea (which was entirely possible) and reach the Channel. Well, big coastal guns would be installed, together with subs and destroyers, would disrupt British shipping massively, and HSF could lure the Grand Fleet to make to sortie there, with the support from newly installed coastal guns. Also, it would be quite fun to see lots of British troopships carrying BEF soldiers and weapons being sunk.

The main route for troopships OTL was Newhaven Dieppe that's quite a race to the sea the Germans win, theirs nothing the GF would prefer than the HSF sticking their nose in the channel, it could be trapped there. The bolded statement is rather unpleasant.
 

BooNZ

Banned
I mean German industrial power allowed it to hold on for nearly 5 years and even knocked out Russia, despite having mediocre allies and being placed into a strategically disadvantaged position.

If German primary industry had not been so backward, Germany may have lasted nearly five years, instead of just over 4 years...

As previously stated, at the start of the war the A-H was the fourth largest manufacturer of machine tools, more than either Russia or France. As previously stated, at the start of the war the A-H army was the fourth most powerful, far more so than puny Britain, which was essentially a naval power. In 1914 A-H was fading, but remained a genuine great power - this ain't no mediocre.

Beggar thy neighbor economic policies, erratic diplomacy and a hail mary military strategy put Germany it in a strategically disadvantaged position. Germany was not placed, it was the author of its own position.
 
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Thomas1195

Banned
The main route for troopships OTL was Newhaven Dieppe that's quite a race to the sea the Germans win, theirs nothing the GF would prefer than the HSF sticking their nose in the channel, it could be trapped there. The bolded statement is rather unpleasant.
Well, German destroyers, cruisers or even HSF in this scenario would be able to move to the Channel (rebase in Dieppe and Calais) under the cover of coastal guns, and from here raiding British shipping, oh, and bombarding British coast. GF would have to neutralize the coastal guns (well, this encounter would be a nightmare)
 
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Well, German destroyers, cruisers or even HSF in this scenario would be able to move to the Channel (rebase in Dieppe and Calais) under the cover of coastal guns, and from here raiding British shipping, oh, and bombarding British coast. GF would have to neutralize the coastal guns (well, this encounter would be a nightmare)

Check the WW2 record of land guns hitting ships in the Channel consistently. Took until 1944, and in nighttime in WW1, it's worse. Plus any loos mines will cause losses. Most likely the Grand Fleet just sits on the east entrance, waits for the Germans to run low on coal and ammo (gotta shoot those ships), then hits them on the way back.
 

CalBear

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Donor
Monthly Donor
Things would have been vastly different if German won the Race to the sea (which was entirely possible) and reach the Channel. Well, big coastal guns would be installed, together with subs and destroyers, would disrupt British shipping massively, and HSF could lure the Grand Fleet to make to sortie there, with the support from newly installed coastal guns. Also, it would be quite fun to see lots of British troopships carrying BEF soldiers and weapons being sunk.
Really?

Quite fun?

Ya.

Kicked for a week.
 
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