Discussion: Comparing British and German industries 1900-1940

Thomas1195

Banned
I think he can be quite sure, it's the sheds effect you see. All those men in sheds, sooner or later one is going to want to tinker with a new gadget, should it turn out to be a really good gadget he ends up head of the foremost company in the industry and is henceforth known as Sir Tinkerer. The effect not being fast is as Boonz suggested likely evidence that the productivity gains from new technologies were not all that great at least in the 20s and 30s.
Well, because the high growth of electrical, motor and chemical industries (actually Britain was catching up with US and Germany at a quite fast pace), was offset by the decay of staple industries like steel, shipbuilding, heavy engineering and textile.
 

hipper

Banned
Well, because the high growth of electrical, motor and chemical industries (actually Britain was catching up with US and Germany at a quite fast pace), was offset by the decay of staple industries like steel, shipbuilding, heavy engineering and textile.

Was not the "Decay" of stable industries due to the Great Depression a slump in demand.

In particulat Shipbuilding was in a slump due to production of Hog islanders in 1919 to 1922 though the Goverment did exactly what you suggested in the case of shipbuilding by subsidising the very large liners.
 

Thomas1195

Banned
Was not the "Decay" of stable industries due to the Great Depression a slump in demand.

In particulat Shipbuilding was in a slump due to production of Hog islanders in 1919 to 1922 though the Goverment did exactly what you suggested in the case of shipbuilding by subsidising the very large liners.
No, the decay was a long process spanning the whole interbellum. British staple industries, especially shipbuilding, in the North suffered two recessions, not one. British shipbuilding slump was caused by postwar overcapacity, WNT, and the growth of foreign shipbuilding. Worse, a long depression period means by mid 1930s, most shipyards had never seen new investments since the early 1920s.

Tory's measures OTL were never radical enough to save it in the long run. Heavy state intervention should have occurred to rationalize and overhaul the shipyards, as shipbuilding was directly related to their national security, even more than chemical. According to Lloyd George, instead of speding capital on improving infrastructures and industrial base, the Tory tended to spend on dole.
 
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hipper

Banned
No, the decay was a long process spanning the whole interbellum. British staple industries, especially shipbuilding, in the North suffered two recessions, not one. British shipbuilding slump was caused by postwar overcapacity, WNT, and the growth of foreign shipbuilding. Worse, a long depression period means by mid 1930s, most shipyards had never seen new investments since the early 1920s.

Tory's measures OTL were never radical enough to save it in the long run.

In the long run Shipping goes to the low wage economies, untill the cost of putting the steel together becomes a very minor portion of the cost of a ship. What exactly is your solution for halting the Decline in capacity of British shipbuilding?
 

Thomas1195

Banned
In the long run Shipping goes to the low wage economies, untill the cost of putting the steel together becomes a very minor portion of the cost of a ship. What exactly is your solution for halting the Decline in capacity of British shipbuilding?
Modernize your shipyards and ship designs thoroughly, focus strongly on advanced technology and productivity as advantage like the Japanese postwar. Japan is still top 3 shipbuilder today. Note that even Nordic, French and German shipbuilding surpassed British one postwar.

In the interbellum, for example, faster adoption of welding and prefabrication. Next, enlarge the shipyards. Finally, faster move from steamships toward motorships, as the latter had greater commercial potential.
 
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hipper

Banned
Modernize your shipyards and ship designs thoroughly, focus strongly on advanced technology and productivity as advantage like the Japanese postwar. Japan is still top 3 shipbuilder today. Note that even Nordic, French and German shipbuilding surpassed British one postwar.

In the interbellum, for example, faster adoption of welding and prefabrication. Next, enlarge the shipyards. Finally, faster move from steamships toward motorships, as the latter had greater commercial potential.

What return do you expect on all this investment?

Why enlarge shipyards when you have not got enough orders to fill the shipyards you have?

What is the advantage of prefabrication over building things in Shipyards?
 
What return do you expect on all this investment?

Why enlarge shipyards when you have not got enough orders to fill the shipyards you have?

What is the advantage of prefabrication over building things in Shipyards?

More machine tool orders for Germany?
 

Thomas1195

Banned
What return do you expect on all this investment?

Why enlarge shipyards when you have not got enough orders to fill the shipyards you have?

What is the advantage of prefabrication over building things in Shipyards?
Enlarge shipyards but reduce the raw number of shipyards.

These are the advantages of prefabrication, especially in military specialist yards like Vickers-Armstrong, although it could be too expensive for merchant yards until 1950s-1960s.

https://books.google.com.vn/books?id=Z6D6YbgiGnUC&pg=PA136&lpg=PA136&dq=advantage+of+prefabrication+shipyard&source=bl&ots=Hdr0bbZGdL&sig=j0ZvSitwb4akawVm8IFcFcp5TNw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiVldLrjKvRAhXIKpQKHfAiAWoQ6AEIGTAB#v=onepage&q=advantage of prefabrication shipyard&f=false
Motorships would eventually replace steamships sooner or later. Besides, enlarging shipyards while reducing the number would improve efficiency and cut costs. Meanwhile, these techniques allow you to spam warships during a short span during wartime.

More machine tool orders for Germany?
Actually, the US, for welding machines and equipment. But a far-sighted government would encourage domestic machine builders to study the designs of the imported machines.

Before developing their own machines, the German also copied American designs.
 

Thomas1195

Banned
Well, just taken a look at axisforum, well, German locomotive production was 6 times higher than British output during ww2.
 

Thomas1195

Banned
Actually, the implementation of 1928 Yellow Book could have changed the fragmented and inefficient ''shed-based'' nature of British industries.
 
It's not like one of those powers had a shit ton of coastlines, rivers, and a narrowish interior that made the need for rail less pressing. Or how one of the lot was about 1.6x larger landmass wise back then.

No, those raillines are exactly why Germany was the best. Even though it isn't the amount, but how efficient and useful those lines are, since building more than what's efficient is a loss in resources.
 
The argument that German Industry was better because it built more railway engines is daft even by the standards of this thread.

The German railways were in crisis in December of 1939, due to shortages, and even after the wholesale theft of the conquered nations in 1940 wasn't much better.
Of course, having to make trains to run in Russia (the unsporting communists had taken theirs away) didn't help. And then the RAF started shooting holes in them.

But the British railways kept running (on time, yet!) all through the war. The German equivalent didn't.

So the British (obviously) built enough engines, the Germans presumably didn't.

So why do the actual numbers matter?
 
Has anyone yet commented on the odd definition of a "Shed" that is being used here.
During WW1 the Vickers Factory at Crayford employed 12,000 Workers just building the Vickers Gun!
As this more employee's than are currently working at the Boeing Plant in Renton, that's one hell of a shed.

(Obviously not as impressive as the one in My Grandfather's Garden, where all he managed to do was graft a new strain of Apple Tree. Create a giant mutant Mint bush and convince a Yucca Plant to grow in Northern Europe. Industrialised Warfare, and Global Air Travel are mere Bagatelle's compared to this:rolleyes:)
 

Thomas1195

Banned
Has anyone yet commented on the odd definition of a "Shed" that is being used here.
During WW1 the Vickers Factory at Crayford employed 12,000 Workers just building the Vickers Gun!
As this more employee's than are currently working at the Boeing Plant in Renton, that's one hell of a shed.

(Obviously not as impressive as the one in My Grandfather's Garden, where all he managed to do was graft a new strain of Apple Tree. Create a giant mutant Mint bush and convince a Yucca Plant to grow in Northern Europe. Industrialised Warfare, and Global Air Travel are mere Bagatelle's compared to this:rolleyes:)
Well, but the vast majority were sheds, sorry man, like various steelworks in Sheffield
 
Well, but the vast majority were sheds, sorry man, like various steelworks in Sheffield

Bear in mind that in the present day UK property sector 'Sheds' as a term often seems to cover any industrial and logistics space. You might descriptions are a bit misleading if you assume 'Shed' to mean a small garden hut or small building.
 
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