Discussion: Comparing British and German industries 1900-1940

Now I see how we all missed the superlative secret German industrial production.
It was all produced from hidden bases in the Frisian Islands...
 

Thomas1195

Banned
The lag of British industry behind the US and Germany both in technology and capability can be traced back to the 1880s. You csn search for the Long Depression.

While other countries intervened and impose tariffs to protect their industries, embraced the innovations from the Second Industrial Revolution, as well as raise the investment rate of GDP, Gladstone and Co with their nonsense retrenchment ideology basically did nothing and British economic and technological development sluggished during the whole 1880-1914 period. Worse, they even enact some idiotic acts like the poorly designed Electric Lighting Act 1882 and Red Flag Act that effectively stalled the development in electrical and motor industries.

During 1880s-1890s, there was the war of currents mainly in the US and Germany, British involvement was minimal.

There were new industrial firms in electrical sector like Crompton or Mather and Platt in 1880s, but they could never scale up after that because of lack of protectionism. They was outcompeted by foreign titans like GE, Westinghouse and Siemens in every aspect. Similar things with synthetic dye.
 
if you want to really look at innovation you should look at patents (as a proportion each had, as well as how they compared with the United States, France, Belgium and Italy (well at least northern Italy) as well as Austria Hungary and Russia

Then look to see how widely adopted patents were in each and how those patents influenced industrial development as well as the development of internal and external markets.

You could get a Phd exploring this, it is hardly a subject that can be easily summarized.

As Paul Kennedy in his "Rise and Fall of the Great Powers" did a pretty good look at the overall picture you could easily find something to start with.

Political systems matter too... the British had a more open system but their elites generally stayed out of industry. British research gave us radar for example and they helped design the first useful computer.

The Germans ended up with a more closed oligarchial system (under the Nazis) and had a distinct lack of focus when it came to development

A comparison is in a lot of ways an apples to oranges comparison because of the unique situations in both nations. Hardly an easy comparison and over generalizing is not going to help when it comes to analysis.
 

Thomas1195

Banned
if you want to really look at innovation you should look at patents (as a proportion each had, as well as how they compared with the United States, France, Belgium and Italy (well at least northern Italy) as well as Austria Hungary and Russia

Then look to see how widely adopted patents were in each and how those patents influenced industrial development as well as the development of internal and external markets.

You could get a Phd exploring this, it is hardly a subject that can be easily summarized.

As Paul Kennedy in his "Rise and Fall of the Great Powers" did a pretty good look at the overall picture you could easily find something to start with.

Political systems matter too... the British had a more open system but their elites generally stayed out of industry. British research gave us radar for example and they helped design the first useful computer.

The Germans ended up with a more closed oligarchial system (under the Nazis) and had a distinct lack of focus when it came to development

A comparison is in a lot of ways an apples to oranges comparison because of the unique situations in both nations. Hardly an easy comparison and over generalizing is not going to help when it comes to analysis.
https://books.google.com.vn/books?i...nepage&q=british population 1870 1914&f=false

This link mentioned all, TFP growth, number of inventions and % of patents granted in the US. Germany outperformed Britain in all 3 categories.
 

Thomas1195

Banned
Note that Germany mass produced radios during 1930s, although with propaganda purpose. During battle of France, German forces were better equipped regarding communication equipment.
 

hipper

Banned
Note that Germany mass produced radios during 1930s, although with propaganda purpose. During battle of France, German forces were better equipped regarding communication equipment.

"There is nothing the British do not have. They have the geniuses and we have the nincompoops. After the war is over I'm going to buy a British radio set - then at least I'll own something that has always worked"

Herman Goering 1943
 
They needed that
Note that Germany mass produced radios during 1930s, although with propaganda purpose. During battle of France, German forces were better equipped regarding communication equipment.

'Volksempfängers', the 'Peoples Receiver' was made, as there were few low cost radios available.

Not the case in the UK, where the BBC promoted in 1939 that 98% of the population were able to listen to their broadcasts. Marconi sold a lot of radios.
 

Thomas1195

Banned
They needed that


'Volksempfängers', the 'Peoples Receiver' was made, as there were few low cost radios available.

Not the case in the UK, where the BBC promoted in 1939 that 98% of the population were able to listen to their broadcasts. Marconi sold a lot of radios.

Well, but the lack of radios of Allies forces, especially in tanks, was a major cause of the fall of Framce
 
Well, but the lack of radios of Allies forces, especially in tanks, was a major cause of the fall of Framce

That was from choice, not from inability to make sets.
Plus, don't forget that many of the early Panzers had receivers only, and couldn't transmit.
 

Driftless

Donor
That was from choice, not from inability to make sets.
Plus, don't forget that many of the early Panzers had receivers only, and couldn't transmit.

I have a vision of some poor tanker screaming at his receiver "Gott verdammt" trailing off into variations of "Can't you see?", "Listen to ME, you idiotic sonofabitch"...
 
Out of interest, have you eaten at all while looking for proof of German superiority.....the word obsession springs to mind.
 
Out of interest, have you eaten at all while looking for proof of German superiority.....the word obsession springs to mind.

Number of telephones though...

What's losing two World Wars in twenty five years to (apparently) technically inferior opponents when compared with the ability to order pizza from the comfort of your living room?
 

Thomas1195

Banned
Number of telephones though...

What's losing two World Wars in twenty five years to (apparently) technically inferior opponents when compared with the ability to order pizza from the comfort of your living room?
This thread is not just about war. Telephone makes communication easier and faster, especially at home or in offices, thus improving living standard and productivity. They, as well as typewriters, were like computers today. In the UK, only the rich could afford them before ww1, while many firms still had only pens and papers in offices.

Oh, also military field telehphones. About the consequence of the lack of telephones and radio, look at French high command in ww2.
 

BooNZ

Banned
https://books.google.com.vn/books?id=jnDA4vY9kFEC&pg=PT212&dq=british+population+1870+1914&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiakqfg9u3QAhWDjZQKHSHaC0sQ6AEIQjAH#v=onepage&q=british population 1870 1914&f=false

This link mentioned all, TFP growth, number of inventions and % of patents granted in the US. Germany outperformed Britain in all 3 categories.

In technical eduction, Germany before Nazi, no contest. Most sources, except for Edgerton, noted that British society at that time was too anti-tech, anti-science.

These are quite British bashing but they are true

Because I am descended from inferior British stock (with a hint of tar), I am too lazy to look up my own material, so I will use the reference you provided...

The relative rise of German capability is more starkly seen in per capita terms: whereas the average Britain was patenting more than twice as frequently in America as the average German in 1886-1890, by 1910-15 the gap had narrowed to just 17%. refer pg 90 of your reference

So based on your criteria, the average Briton was only 17% smarter than the average German in 1915 - good to know.

Despite only having a slender advantage in intellect, in 1913 the British share of world trade of manufactured goods was a healthy 31.8% compared to Germany at 19.9% and the USA at 13.2%, despite the British having a substantially smaller population base than either of those "competitors". refer page 83 of your reference
 
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Thomas1195

Banned
Because I am descended from inferior British stock (with a hint of tar), I am too lazy to look up my own material, so I will use the reference you provided...

The relative rise of German capability is more starkly seen in per capita terms: whereas the average Britain was patenting more than twice as frequently in America as the average German in 1886-1890, by 1910-15 the gap had narrowed to just 17%. refer pg 90 of your reference

So based on your criteria, the average Briton was only 17% smarter than the average German in 1915 - good to know.

Despite only having a slender advantage in intellect, in 1913 the British share of world trade of manufactured goods was a healthy 31.8% compared to Germany at 19.9% and the USA at 13.2%, despite the British having a substantially smaller population base than either of those "competitors". refer page 83 of your reference
Read the whole passage please. British composition of patents were also mostly of old and lower tech sectors. Besides, Germany had more MAJOR inventions. This indicated that Britain were not at the forefront of the Second Industrial Revolution. In fact, Britaim had never been a pioneer in the second industrial revolution.

Finally, good luck finding a British equivalent of Krupp or Siemens.
 

hipper

Banned
Read the whole passage please. British composition of patents were also mostly of old and lower tech sectors. Besides, Germany had more MAJOR inventions. This indicated that Britain were not at the forefront of the Second Industrial Revolution. In fact, Britaim had never been a pioneer in the second industrial revolution.

Finally, good luck finding a British equivalent of Krupp or Siemens.

Vickers or Armstrong Whitworth or Beardmores would be the British equivalent of Krupps

As we've discussed the British equivalent of Siemens was in fact Siemens the world leading undersea cable layer based in the U.K. Which wired the world. Controll of that network enabled the British to intercept diplomatic communications world wide.
 

hipper

Banned
Read the whole passage please. British composition of patents were also mostly of old and lower tech sectors. Besides, Germany had more MAJOR inventions. This indicated that Britain were not at the forefront of the Second Industrial Revolution. In fact, Britaim had never been a pioneer in the second industrial revolution.

Finally, good luck finding a British equivalent of Krupp or Siemens.

You realise that "MAJOR" inventions is a self selected criteria incapable of falsification and thus meaningless who knows what is in fact a major invention untill its exploited

Likewise second industrial revolution ... by which you mean electricifation. I would have thought that the invention of the Turbine generator, the worlds first High voltage power station, the electric light bulb and the first house lit by electricity might have placed the uk in the forefront of the electricification process.
 
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