Discussion and analysis: Timur compared to Subutai

So this is a thread I decided to start to move the ongoing discussion of Timur compared to Subutai in military prowess.

Battles of documentation for the respective generals:

Timur:

Battle of Ankara 1402
Battle of Terek River 1395
The invasion of the Delhi sultanate and the siege of Delhi 1398
The siege of Baghdad 1401 and the Timurid-Jalayarid war
Siege of Balkh 1370
Timurid invasion of Georgia 1386-1402

Less covered areas

Siege of Istafan 1387
Timur before 1370 in his service with the Chagatayid
Siege of Herat 1383
Siege of Tehran 1383
Siege of Soltaniyah 1384


Subutai:

Battle of Kalka River 1223
Battle of Mohi 1241
Mongol invasion of the Kwarezmshah realm 1219-1221
Battle of Samara Bend 1223


I do not know Sabutai's involvement in China against the Jin, so I cannot speak on it.
 

longsword14

Banned
Bump... No interest?
Any books that give details on their ability to think tactically and strategically? With Subutai he only had the three tumens at hand during hif famous campaigns. China where he led a for a long time is unknown. I think it would be fair to first check how they maneuvered on a tactical level. I do not have much for Subutai.
 
Any books that give details on their ability to think tactically and strategically? With Subutai he only had the three tumens at hand during hif famous campaigns. China where he led a for a long time is unknown. I think it would be fair to first check how they maneuvered on a tactical level. I do not have much for Subutai.

I do not have any books in particular only information on accounts of the particular battles.
 
Cool thread I'll be intrested to see what people say. A good amount of the book Subutai the Valiant is online at google books:
https://books.google.com/books?id=XXWFca82UvYC&printsec=frontcover&dq=subotai+the+valiant&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjVg-m34pbOAhWGOD4KHXPCBtIQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=subotai the valiant&f=false

Battles for Subutai we can add siege of Kaifeng in China and First/Second battles of Kura Plain where he crushed the Georgians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_siege_of_Kaifeng
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasions_of_Georgia
 
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One thing essentially that we can cover is their greatest highlights, Kalka River for Subutai and Ankara for Timur.

So to start we could cover those two to begin with.
 
Timur was the Great Khan, meanwhile Sabutai was a general. I feel Sabutai doesn't get enough credit, and most of his work done has been forgotten or overshadowed by his 'boss' Genghis Khan.
 
Timur was never Great Khan he was only an Amir (noble, general), while the khan was his father-in-law and brother-in-law, although Timur was the power behind the throne, the Chagatayids were just figureheads.
Subotai was also renowned for his unwavering loyalty and prowess on the battlefield, Timur was renowned too because he was a military genius but he was more cruel (he used cruelty to dissuade resistance)
 
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