Discuss: China Invasion of the West Along The Silk Road

So I just wanted to post a question. Would it have been possible for China to invade the West using the route of the Silk Road to spearhead an invasion effort? If so, which Emperor of China would have been the most likely to attempt this, what era would it have occurred in, and if it had been successful, what sort of world would we be looking at today?
 
So I just wanted to post a question. Would it have been possible for China to invade the West using the route of the Silk Road to spearhead an invasion effort? If so, which Emperor of China would have been the most likely to attempt this, what era would it have occurred in, and if it had been successful, what sort of world would we be looking at today?

I don't know who might have attempted such a thing, but the attempt would most certainly have failed. The West is just too far away from the Chinese home base for any army to be maintained there, whilst their supply lines would be extremely tenuous and liable to being cut at any point. Not to mention, even if somehow the Chinese did get to Europe or the Middle East, they'd have no real idea of the geography, political or physical, which would make decent strategic planning next to impossible.
 

RousseauX

Donor
So I just wanted to post a question. Would it have been possible for China to invade the West using the route of the Silk Road to spearhead an invasion effort? If so, which Emperor of China would have been the most likely to attempt this, what era would it have occurred in, and if it had been successful, what sort of world would we be looking at today?
what do you mean the west?

Central Asia? Western Europe?
 
well, some dynasties have conquered downstream of the silk road, past the western gate into the tarim basin. However afaik, the only chinese presense further west than that was influence and soft power in central asia. i suppose the question here is how to motivste china to annex central asia, if its even possible to hold on to. cant move into iran abd the near east or the european steppe until central asia is secure. Chinese strategic interests are going to bd to the north tho until its pacified. if china got serious about its navy, would capturing the sea route be more viable?
 
I think if we can be loose on the type of invasion, it's doable. Think grand migration of poor/displaced Han Chinese post a great famine and it may be possible.
 
Been playing some ck2 recently, and came up with an idea. What if, instead of China doing the conquests, an autonomous western protectorate bolstered by Han settlers, and gold from the central government leads the charge?
Perhaps with a pod at talas the tang overextend themselves in the West, and to manage it, said protectorate is created, under gao xianzhi? He seems quite capable.
 

Skallagrim

Banned
China had considerable influence on a number Central Asian polities at various times. In reality, Chinese control got less and less direct the further West one looked, changing from increasingly self-governing provinces to military frontier districts to semi-autonomous protectorates to almost entirely independent vassals. It is possible to push China's borders further to the west, meaning that China will also be able to have semi-autonomous protectorates further west than in OTL, and vassal states even to the west of those.

The logistics of the situation make direct governance unlikely, of course. Even any meaningful form of less direct control becomes difficult due to the difficult geography (mountains and deserts). But one can imagine a China that plays a more active role in Central Asia, aggressively taking on the part of power broker and thus gaining the loyalty of the factions they support.
 

Kaze

Banned
What stopped Chinese moving west was -

First. Isolationism.

Secondly. The Battle of Talas and the Subsequent An-Lushan Revolution put the nail into the coffin of the Chinese expansion during the Tang. The defeat of Talas showed that expansion was not in the cards, yes there were scattered battles after that but it only put more and more power into the hands of ambitious generals such as An-Lushan. The An-Lushan Revolution ripped out the heart of the Tang leaving it to peter on for several generations until it collapsed into civil war among the generals.

Third. Leadership.
Finding a leader to lead such a crusade would be hard. The military was not considered the go-to carrier for advancement in Chinese society. Yes, there were some good leaders in the military - but there was little to no political or social advancement for those leaders unless said leader "gets an idea". Generals with "an idea" either end up in several fashions - betrayed and killed by one of their captains who want to be promoted to general, assassinated (like Yue Fei - he was a good general, but some idiots in the capital was whispering he might someday rebel - so he was assassinated in order to keep the treaty and silence the idiots), replaced by an incompetent general that has never seen a battlefield, unsuccessfully rebel, or successfully rebel and establish a new dynasty where in the new boss is the same as the old boss.
 
So I just wanted to post a question. Would it have been possible for China to invade the West using the route of the Silk Road to spearhead an invasion effort? If so, which Emperor of China would have been the most likely to attempt this, what era would it have occurred in, and if it had been successful, what sort of world would we be looking at today?
Crusader Kings 2, a real time strategy game has a function where China may invade the West. It is supposed to be rare though.
https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Interactions_with_China#Warfare
https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Jade_Dragon
 
Maybe if the Mongols assimilated into Chinese culture, language, civilization or ethnicity. Then the Mongol empire could become the Han empire.
Even if they assimilated, would they really be considered Han? Besides which, if they did assimilate, that would mean they'd discard their nomadic way of life and have a much harder time conquering westward.
 
Even if they assimilated, would they really be considered Han? Besides which, if they did assimilate, that would mean they'd discard their nomadic way of life and have a much harder time conquering westward.
I was thinking of a scenario were the mongols become assimilated into the chinese world, both in mind and body. This would happen thru interaction and intermarriage with Han. The important thing is that the mongol assimilation into the chinese world would happen after the mongol conquest. Or atleest it would be finished towards the end of the mongol empire. It would be an process. This process might be helped if the Mongols bring many chinese labourers, warriors and bureucrats to serve them. Over time chinese elements might surround the Mongols so much that they are overwhelmed, and assimilate in with the chinese world.
 
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