Dirty Laundry: An Alternate 1980s

Dirty Laundry updates are indeed forthcoming! I just wish I'd had an appropriate post ready to go to eulogize Glenn Frey, but I suppose this entire TL is a pretty good tip of the cap to him.

Wonderful news, as we've all missed you and this TL very much. Looking forward to the new updates!

Also, I hope any fellow fans of Glenn Frey reading this TL were able to catch the moving tribute at the Grammys by the Eagles (Henley included) and Jackson Browne. Unfortunately, this is the best-quality Youtube video I can find of it.
 
Trump Things Never Change

Why 1986 Will Be Forever Known as “The Year That Donald Trump Destroyed the NFL”
By Keith Olbermann [1]
Sports Illustrated

GOP_2016_Trump_Football.JPG_t1140.jpg


A lot of people have pitchforks out for United States District Court Judge J. Frederick Motz of Maryland, who earlier this week rejected a motion for reconsideration and upheld a jury verdict awarding nearly $1.7 billion in damages to the United States Football League (“USFL”) for monopolistic practices by the NFL. [2] Without that verdict, as many of you surmise, the NFL would have never agreed to absorb the fledgling USFL and expand to an additional seven cities: Baltimore, Birmingham, Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Memphis, Oakland, Orlando, as well as resolve the situation with the New Jersey Generals. [3]

We all know that most of these teams are a joke, and that NFL Football cannot be sustained in Alabama. We also know that there just aren’t enough good players to go around to fill 36 NFL teams. Nevertheless, this is what we’re getting. Get used to it. [4] Now, I’m not suggesting that you shouldn’t be angry. I’m angry. I just think our collective anger should be directed where it belongs: at real estate mogul Donald J. Trump.

Let’s remember how we got here. It started with an idea – a pretty good idea, in fact.

On May 11, 1982, businessman David Dixon announced the formation of the USFL at the former speakeasy called the “21 Club” in New York City. Drawing upon two years’ worth of market research, Dixon concluded that the Americans had a year-round appetite for watching professional football, and envisioned his USFL as serving in a complementary role to the NFL. Dixon’s vision was that football fans would watch the older, more established NFL during the fall and winter, and then turn to the USFL during the spring and summer. From a business perspective, this “complementary” role would also enable the USFL to secure lucrative television broadcast contracts. [5]

Dixon’s USFL would be made up of 12 teams from the largest television markets in the nation: New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, Detroit, Boston, Tampa Bay, Oakland, Denver, Washington, Philadelphia,
Birmingham and San Diego, although the San Diego franchise was relocated before USFL play even began. [6]

Dixon also assembled a credible infrastructure for his fledging league, including Judge Peter Spivak, who served as President of the League, and former ABC and ESPN executive Chet Simmons, who served as Commissioner. As a result, the USFL was able to secure lucrative television contracts with both ABC (for $18 million for the first two seasons) and ESPN (at $11 million for the first two seasons), deals that were contingent upon the USFL fielding teams in the top three U.S. television markets – New York, Los Angeles and Chicago – and a minimum of four of the five other top-ten television markets in which teams were originally located (Philadelphia, Boston, Detroit, the San Francisco/Oakland Bay Area and Washington, D.C.).

The final component of Dixon’s “complementary” vision was that fans would see little drop-off in the talent level of play on the field. USFL franchises would be coached by many former NFL head coaches, including the legendary George Allen, Chuck Fairbbanks, Frank Kush, Walt Michaels, Red Miller, and John Ralston, up-and-comers like Jim Mora and Marv Levy, and famous college coaches Steve Spurrier and Lee Corso. And USFL franchises would (mostly) play in major stadiums such as Soldier Field in Chicago (capacity 65,793), Giants Stadium in New Jersey (76,891), and RFK Stadium in Washington, D.C. (54,794) – although a few franchises wound up playing in substandard locations. [7] Moreover, by playing in the spring, the USFL could draft college players and have them in uniform playing pro ball before the NFL draft was even scheduled to start. This proved prescient, as USFL teams managed to attract top college talent such as Mike Rozier, Doug Flutie, Bo Jackson, and Herschel Walker. [8]

Dixon wisely presaged that the USFL could not afford to get into a bidding war with the cash-flush NFL, so his league had a built-in salary cap of $1.8 million. Owners were advised to expect losses in the first season (advice that turned out to be correct), and to work diligently to control costs. In addition to the hard salary cap, the USFL also established budget guidelines for player salaries of between $1.3 and $1.5 million per team. [9] Dixon’s USFL also adopted three rules that are expected to be implemented in the merged NFL: (1) the two-point conversion; (2) a rule borrowed from college football whereby each new first down stops the clock after the two-minute warning; and (3) an instant replay system for challenging rulings on the field (already an NFL experiment likely to have been implemented this season anyway). [10]

Branch Rickey famously remarked that luck is the residue of design, and Dixon’s design earned him a fair bit of luck in the form of the 1982 NFL strike. In fact, the first kickoff in the USFL came just weeks after the Washington Redskins won a strike-shortened 9-game season and impromptu playoffs. The upstart USFL seemed almost more professional by comparison. And the product on the field, if not of NFL caliber, was pretty good. The USFL averaged nearly 25,000 fans per game, meeting or exceeding initial projections. On TV, the Nielsen ratings for the first week of games was 14.3, which was a close comparable to the average NFL game, and both ABC and ESPN were “very pleased” with the USFL’s rating. [11] Dixon’s “complementary” vision was complete: the USFL could stand side-by-side with the NFL.

Enter Donald J. Trump, a man who’d rather seize the spotlight than share the stage. After purchasing the New Jersey Generals on September 22, 1983, Trump promptly blew through the league’s salary cap, seducing Lawrence Taylor away from the New York Giants. Trump’s profligacy rippled throughout the league; in effect, the floodgates were opened as other USFL teams scrambled to sign NFL stars such as Joe Cribbs, Gary Barbaro, Doug Williams, Jim Kelly and Reggie White. It culminated, of course, in the ridiculous $40 million contract the Jacksonville Renegades gave to quarterback Steve Young – a sum that exceeded the value of the franchise itself. [12]

These expenditures ran the USFL’s already-shaky financial footing off the cliff, forcing the owners to abandon Mr. Dixon’s slow-growth “complementary” plan, which even under the most optimistic conditions was never intended to generate sufficient revenue to keep up with runaway spending. [13] After three seasons, a dozen USFL teams had gone bankrupt, and only four of the original owners remained in the league.

On May 9, 1984 in New York, Donald Trump hatched the plan that would make him The Most Hated Man In America. [14] His strategy was a complete 180 from Mr. Dixon’s “complementary” vision; instead, the USFL would take on the NFL directly, ultimately forcing the NFL to merge the two leagues, which would provide the cash infusion necessary to pay off the debts incurred bidding for players. Trump's merger strategy involved escalating financial competition for players as a means of putting pressure on NFL expenses, moving USFL franchises out of cities where NFL teams played into cities thought to be logical expansion (through merger) cities for the NFL, and, most critically, moving the USFL season from the spring/summer to the fall to compete directly with the NFL’s television revenues. [15]

At the league’s August owners’ meeting, the USFL voted 14-4 to move their schedule to the fall in 1986. To compete directly with the NFL, USFL owners decided to move many of the leagues franchises from cities which had both USFL and NFL teams to potential “merger” cites that lacked NFL teams. Over the next year and a half, the USFL relocated franchises out of NFL markets like Chicago, Detroit, Philadelphia, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, and Washington, D.C. and into Baltimore (which had lost its NFL team in 1984) and Orlando (which had no NFL team). The USFL also facilitated the mergers of various franchises, strengthening the teams in Oakland (which had lost the NFL Raiders to Los Angeles) and Indianapolis (which had been discussed as a possible NFL expansion city). [16] The stage was set for an NFL merger.

The only problem was that the NFL wasn’t interested. Their internal feasibility studies showed that the talent pool of available players simply couldn’t support an additional eight teams; this “dilution factor” would either noticeably lower the overall quality of play on the field (if talent were redistributed to the new teams) or result in such disparity that most of the new teams would go winless not only for the season but the immediate future.

To force the NFL’s hand, the Trump-led USFL filed an antitrust lawsuit in federal court, alleging that the NFL unfairly used its monopolistic influence to deprive the USFL of the fair market value of the broadcast rights to its product. The suit would be heard by Judge J. Frederick Motz of the U.S. District Court for the District of Maryland, in front of Baltimore jurors – whom, it must be said, still harbored a grundge against the NFL for allowing Robert Irsay to move the NFL Colts to Arizona in the dead of night the previous year. [17]

As the case unfolded, the Trump-led USFL’s star witness turned out to be… Donald Trump, who testified under oath that NFL Commissioner Pete Rozelle had offered him an NFL franchise in exchange for blocking the USFL’s proposed move to a fall schedule. Trump insisted that he turned down the bribe out of a sense of moral obligation to his co-owners. Rozelle, for what it’s worth, vociferously denied that any such offer was made. His credibility was probably not helped by Al Davis, owner of the NFL’s Los Angeles Raiders, who voluntarily cooperated with the USFL (in exchange for not being named in the lawsuit), and who testified that Rozelle orchestrated “an understanding” at a 1983 NFL owners’ meeting to keep a USFL team out of New York. [18]

Last week, Trump’s USFL won that lawsuit, and a Baltimore-based jury awarded him nearly $1.7 billion in damages. The NFL was never going to pay that. Instead, they gave Trump exactly what he wanted all along: eight new NFL franchises.

Perhaps they would have been better off just coughing up the money.

----------

1986 NFL Standings and Playoffs [19]
AFC East
New York Generals (10-6) - *
New Jersey Jets (9-7)
New England Patriots (9-7)
Buffalo Bills (7-9)

AFC Central
Cleveland Browns (12-4) - *
Baltimore Stars (9-7) - +
Cincinnati Bengals (8-8)
Pittsburgh Steelers (7-9)

AFC South
Kansas City Chiefs (13-3) - *
Miami Dolphins (11-5) - +
Houston Oilers (8-8)
Birmingham Stallions (4-12)
Indianapolis Panthers (0-16)

AFC West
Denver Broncos (11-5) - *
Seattle Seahawks (9-7)
Los Angeles Raiders (8-8)
San Diego Chargers (6-10)
Oakland Invaders (3-13)

NFC East
Washington Redskins (13-3) - *
New Jersey Giants (11-5)
Dallas Cowboys (6-10)
Philadelphia Eagles (4-12)

NFC Central
Chicago Bears (15-1) - *
Minnesota Vikings (11-5) - +
Detroit Lions (8-8)
Green Bay Packers (7-9)
Memphis Showboats (1-15)

NFC South
New Orleans Saints (9-7) - *
Atlanta Falcons (8-8)
Jacksonville Renegades (6-10)
Orlando Bandits (4-12)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers (4-12)

NFC West
Los Angeles Rams (12-4) - *
San Francisco 49ers (11-5) - +
St. Louis Cardinals (7-9)
Arizona Colts (7-9)

* -division winner
+ -wild card team

Wild Card Games:
Baltimore Stars 27 @ Denver Broncos 21
New York Generals 42 over Miami Dolphins 14
Minnesota Vikings 15 @ Los Angeles Rams 10
San Francisco 49ers 21 over New Orleans Saints 13

Division Championships:
Kansas City Chiefs 17 over Baltimore Stars 10
New York Generals 24 @ Cleveland Browns 7
Chicago Bears 34 over Minnesota Vikings 14
Washington Redskins 27 over San Francisco 49ers 6

Conference Championships
:
Kansas City Chiefs 38 over New York Generals 35 (2 OT) [20]
Chicago Bears 21 over Washington Redskins 3

Super Bowl XXI [21]
Chicago Bears 49 over Kansas City Chiefs 10

----------

NOTES:

[1] Olbermann is a professional sportscaster in Los Angeles as of the date of this TL (July 29, 1986); IOTL, he would join ESPN as the co-host of SportsCenter in 1992. His long-form piece here was written independently and then sold to Sports Illustrated.

[2] IOTL, the USFL also won its antitrust suit against the NFL; however, the New York-based jury in that suit (brought in the Southern District of New York in front of Judge Peter K. Leisure) accepted the NFL’s mitigation arguments and reduced the USFL’s damages to a “nominal” sum of $1, which was then tripled by law to $3, and increased to $3.76 with the application of prejudgment interest. (The USFL famously never cashed its $3.76 check from the NFL.) Here, the case is brought in Baltimore before the United States District Court of Maryland, presided over by a different judge and subject to a very different jury. Legal strategists suggest that could have produced a more favorable verdict for the Plaintiffs.

[3] These represent the four USFL teams that were left standing by 1986 IOTL (the Baltimore Stars, Birmingham Barons, Jacksonville Bulls, and Memphis Showboats), Donald Trump’s New Jersey Generals (who relocate to New York), a team in Indianapolis (replacing OTL’s Arizona Outlaws), a team created from the merger between OTL’s Orlando Renegades and Tampa Bay Bandits (which would continue to carry the Bandits name), and the Oakland Invaders.

It’s worth noting that IOTL, all of these have proven to be successful NFL destinations with the exception of Birmingham, Alabama and Orlando, Florida.

[4] Forcing a merger with the NFL was always seen as Trump’s key goal in acquiring the New Jersey Generals; such a merger would drastically increase the value of his investment. Here, the NFL agrees to the merger rather than fork over nearly two billion dollars in damages (which it does not have).

[5] As OTL.

[6] Mostly as OTL, with the San Diego franchise falling through just as in OTL (due to the inability to get the rights to play in Jack Murphy Stadium), followed by a subsequent move to Phoenix in 1983. That team, the Arizona Wranglers, would be the worst team in the USFL, finishing 4-14, but with a surprise 30-29 victory at home over arguably the league’s best team, the Chicago Blitz. In the Dirty Laundryverse, the Wranglers lose that game. Coupled with TTL’s Baltimore Colts moving to Phoenix in ’84., the Wranglers simply declare bankruptcy and close up shop after the inaugural season. This avoids the very weird franchise swap with Chicago that essentially destroyed the credibility of both USFL franchises IOTL.

[7] As OTL. In its inaugural season, the USFL averaged nearly 25,000 fans per game.

[8] As OTL, with the notable addition of Bo Jackson.

[9] As OTL.

[10] All three rules were USFL rules IOTL as well; the two-point conversion was adopted by OTL’s NFL in 1994, and instant replay was adopted in 1986, as Olbermann says. The NFL has never attempted to apply the NCAA first-downs-stop-the-clock rule IOTL, which strikes me as a bit of a shame.

[11] With minor butterflies, as OTL.

[12] IOTL, it was the Los Angeles Express who handed out the $40 million contract to Steve Young.

[13] IOTL, for example, the USFL v. NFL trial uncovered an internal memorandum from Oakland Invaders owner Tad Taube warning his fellow owners that “If we are not successful in establishing player [salary] caps I can guarantee you that there will not be a USFL within three years, irrespective of improved revenue [from] television.” The memo included a copy of the famous Pogo cartoon, attributed “We have sighted the enemy and they are us!"

[14] I avoided the temptation to use “The Worst Person In The World” here. :)

[15] As OTL.

[16] As OTL, with the exceptions of the slightly different fates of Indianapolis and Phoenix.

[17] Ironically, the difference here is that Trump has slightly less influence with his fellow USFL owners; IOTL, Trump insisted that his New York legal team, led by Harvey Myerson, file suit in federal court in New York instead of a city like Baltimore or Oakland. I am not identifying the USFL’s Baltimore-based legal team, since in all likelihood it would be comprised of many of my real-life friends and colleagues. :)

[18] As OTL.

[19] Under the terms of the USFL-NFL settlement, the USFL New Jersey Generals would play their 1986 games in Yankee Stadium as their usual home (the Meadowlands) was the primary home to the NFL’s New York Giants. This led to the NFL referring to the Giants as the “New Jersey” Giants (and the Jets as the “New Jersey” Jets), although all three teams referred to themselves and played with uniforms that said “New York.”

Both the Jets and the Giants would miss the playoffs. IOTL, the Jets finished 10-6 and won the first round of the playoffs by defeating the Kansas City Chiefs, 35-15. Here, they lose the tiebreaker to the Baltimore Stars.

OTL’s Giants were a defensive powerhouse, led by MVP Lawrence Taylor’s amazing 20 ½ sacks. The Giants won 14 games and, eventually, the Superbowl by a score of 39-20 over the Denver Broncos. Statistics suggest that the Giants were actually closer to a 12-win team; in the Dirty Laundryverse, they lose three close games they won IOTL, including a crucial Week 11 loss to the Minnesota Vikings that causes them to be the odd team out among the 11-win Vikings and Dolphins.

[20] The 1986 AFC Championship was marred by numerous bad calls, including overturning two separate Herschel Walker touchdowns – one in regulation, and one in the second OT. Most New Yorkers believe that this was a conspiracy by the NFL to ensure that the Generals would not advance to the Superbowl.

[21] This means that the Chicago Bears have now lost exactly one game in two years as well as won back-to-back Superbowls. I didn't set out to make this TL a Bearswank, but I guess it's shaping up that way....

trump 1986.jpg
 
Well Andrew T, you just made my late Grandma's day. She lived in Tampa, and was a far bigger fan of the Bandits than she ever was of the Buccaneers.

Oh, and one of my cousins played football for UCF in the late 90s-early 2000s. Does this mean that, since the Citrus Bowl is a natural grass field, he's stuck in Division IAA and/or playing at high school stadiums like Florida Atlantic and Florida International?

You've also just completely butterflied away the last two seasons of Coach as we know them.

Oh, and what did you think of my latest PM?
 
Well Andrew T, you just made my late Grandma's day. She lived in Tampa, and was a far bigger fan of the Bandits than she ever was of the Buccaneers.

Oh, and one of my cousins played football for UCF in the late 90s-early 2000s. Does this mean that, since the Citrus Bowl is a natural grass field, he's stuck in Division IAA and/or playing at high school stadiums like Florida Atlantic and Florida International?

You've also just completely butterflied away the last two seasons of Coach as we know them.

Oh, and what did you think of my latest PM?

Yeah but what happened to the bandits? i don't see it...a shame indeed, watching USFL was terrific at the time.

Did bears drafted Aikman? if yes the wank is credible, if not....well....
 
Man, I hope there's an Axl-Crue/Ratt-Jovi tour!

Both acts are in mega-stardom territory now, so your best hope here is a domestic version of the Scorpions Oktoberfest, which... isn't that implausible, now that I think about it.

Can we get a Rock 'n Soul Part 2? Rock 'n Soul Part 1 was one of the ballsier album titles, since it assumed "wait for all the Hall & Oates hits we're gonna have after 1983". Unless it was a joke and a Part 2 was never intended. OTL, Hall and Oates released an album in 1984, a live album in 1985 and the next studio album was 1988. The latter album was too many years late and was of much lower popularity than their early 80s material. It's the Steve Guttenberg effect: you can be huge for a long period of time and assume you can just take a few years off, but when you do you come back and realize everything has changed and you're no longer on top and you don't have a conduit to getting back on top. Whereas if you just stayed in the game, you would have evolved and grown with anything else and remained on top. Hall & Oates pulled a Guttenberg.

I think you're exactly right, and unfortunately, the greater success of Daryl Hall's solo career means that it's unlikely Hall & Oates will overcome these problems ITTL. Sadly.

Since Dreams has been affected by butterflies (i.e. John Stamos fronts a heavy metal band instead of a generic rock band), has Kids Incorporated been affected in any way? Seeing Fergie or Jennifer Love Hewitt singing metal songs would be interesting.

To answer without answering: yes, in general, the cultural shift towards mainstreaming metal has spillover effects everywhere. I owe you a post about classic 1980s cartoons, if that's any hint. :)

Andrew T, could you make my dream of a late 80s/early 90s Planet of the Apes reboot a reality when you return?

Adam Rifkin is an interesting guy, I'll give you that.

What better way to eulogize Glenn Frey than to have South of Sunset be a hit show ITTL?

And in 1986, to boot! (I know you remember, Brainbin, but others may have forgotten....)

Well Andrew T, you just made my late Grandma's day. She lived in Tampa, and was a far bigger fan of the Bandits than she ever was of the Buccaneers.

And all of her favorite players are still on the gridiron just 90 miles up I-84 in Orlando! It was a real coup when Steve Spurrier somehow convinced Lee Corso to stay on as Offensive Coordinator, wasn't it? Team co-owner Burt Reynolds hopes she'll come up for a game or two, and if not, at least she'll watch the Bandits on ESPN!

Oh, and one of my cousins played football for UCF in the late 90s-early 2000s. Does this mean that, since the Citrus Bowl is a natural grass field, he's stuck in Division IAA and/or playing at high school stadiums like Florida Atlantic and Florida International?

I'm not sure if you're going to get an in-timeline post, but obviously the NFL expansion is going to lead to a lot of immediate demands for publicly-funded stadiums. Trump's Generals just finished out the season in Yankee Stadium, of all places, so you know he's going to get some public dough.

The 4-12 Orlando Bandits aren't in quite as good a bargaining position, but they've established themselves as a legitimate low-end NFL team, and, well, you never know. :)

Yeah but what happened to the bandits? i don't see it...a shame indeed, watching USFL was terrific at the time.

The Tampa Bay Bandits merged with the Orlando Storm in 1985, with the merged team keeping on Burt Reynolds as co-owner and public face and, logically, the Bandits name (which derived from Reynolds' famous role in the Smokey and the Bandit movies).

Did bears drafted Aikman? if yes the wank is credible, if not....well....

I'll answer that when the TL gets to 1989, but consider one obvious implication for the team that drafted Aikman IOTL: because Herschel Walker stays with the New York Generals, the Cowboys aren't able to reload by trading him to the Vikings for three years' worth of draft picks.

Keep in mind that (just as OTL), Trump's Generals acquired Jim Kelly as their QB, too -- meaning that the Buffalo Bills are going to look a lot different ITTL as well.

What's going to happen to Heather O'Rourke, the Poltergeist girl?

I can tell you this: the Poltergeist sequels are never made in the Dirty Laundryverse as part of the continuing backlash against kid-oriented nightmare films pioneered by E.T. II.
 
"We're gonna build eight stadiums, and we're gonna make Pete Rozelle pay for it! We're gonna make football great again!"

And yay! Indy gets a team! They suck, but Indy gets a team!

Have you ever seen ESPN's 30 for 30 documentary Small Potatoes: Who Killed The USFL? (spoiler: Trump) It's really fascinating and you should check it out if you're interested in the state of pro football at the time.

Nice update!
 
with no Poltergeist sequels, plus the backlash against nightmare horror aimed at kids because of E.T. II, Heather O'Rourke won't be seen as an icon in the DLV, she'll be widely seen as a victim, not just of "evil Hollywood" but of evil parents who should never have let her be in such a film.
 
Last week, Trump’s USFL won that lawsuit, and a Baltimore-based jury awarded him nearly $1.7 billion in damages. The NFL was never going to pay that. Instead, they gave Trump exactly what he wanted all along: eight new NFL franchises.

Perhaps they would have been better off just coughing up the money.

Oh sweet Jesus. Can't the Donald keep his nose out of anything?
*answer: NO* :rolleyes:
 
The Slow Hand of Pink Floyd

Metal Strings: A Forum for Guitar Enthusiasts (Chat Room)
13 users online (4 unregistered)

Purex99: So, Rolling Stone has released another one of those “Greatest Guitarists of All Time” lists…anyone want to guess the top 5?

Intellivision4Ever
: Oooh, let me! Hendrix, Page, Clapton are their top 3 for sure

Soundwave: Yeah, Hendrix will always get their #1. B.B. King probably makes the list, right?

Large Hadron Magnetic Pulse: Tony Iommi, Kerry King, Kirk Hammett, Slash, and Yngwie Malmsteen :)

Purex99: Is that a prediction, LHMP, or just your personal playlist?

Large Hadron Magnetic Pulse
: Can’t it be both?? :D

Purex99: Well, as a serious prediction, you’re 0-for-5. Hammett is in the top 20, though.

Gall Bladder in a Flask
: Hendrix/Page/Clapton sounds right for the top three. I’ve got guesses for the other two slots, but let me get the easy one out of the way first: the U.S.-centric Rolling Stone manages to snub the Great White North, don’t they?

Purex99: Alex Lifeson isn’t on the list, but Neil Young is #17, so that should count for something, right?

Gall Bladder in a Flask: What about Joni Mitchell? :cool:

Soundwave: Seriously? I mean, Canadian pride and all, but my grandma plays the guitar better than Joni Mitchell.

Purex99: Joni Mitchell is not on the list. Intellivision called 3 of the top 5

Gunpowder God
: We’re twelve comments in and nobody’s mentioned Eddie Van Halen??!?? :eek:

President Art Carney: [throws a chair at GG]

President Art Carney: This is what happens when people who’ve only listened to commercialized corporate rock opine as to who’s the best guitarist. What’s the argument for Van Halen – that he’s fast? So what?

Soundwave: Yeah, I could teach my grandma a few hammer ons and have her spit out a fast solo. That doesn’t make her a great guitarist.

Purex99: Well, right or wrong, Eddie Van Halen’s at #3. One more spot to go, and it’s not anyone who’s been mentioned yet.

Large Hadron Magnetic Pulse: Is it Stevie Ray Vaughn? I’d be kind of surprised, but… [1]

Purex99: Nope. I think Malmsteen was a better guess, actually.

Existential Vacuum
: Robert Johnson, for historical value?

Gunpowder God: ooh, good one

President Art Carney
: It’s gotta be Johnson

Purex99: Close, but no cigar: Johnson’s at #6.

Gall Bladder in a Flask: It won’t be Mark Knopfler, but by god, it *should* be Mark Knopfler. Best fingerpicker of all time.

Soundwave: Seriously, dude, give it up. I like “Sultans of Swing,” too, but you kind of need more than one song to be in the top five of all time.

Gall Bladder in a Flask: Okay, so we have our top 5, right? Jimi Hendrix, Eric Clapton, Eddie Van Halen, Jimmy Page, and Soundwave’s Grandma

Soundwave: :)

’69 Mets: Gotta be David Gilmour, right?

Purex99: David Gilmour not in the top 20.

Gunpowder God
: That’s fucking ridiculous.

Soundwave: Yeah, that’s insane. Has anyone at Rolling Stone ever heard “Dark Side of the Moon?” I mean, it only sold 50 million copies.

Gall Bladder in a Flask
: “Shine On You Crazy Diamond” is definitely better, technically, than anything on DSOTM. Even if it doesn’t synch up with the Wizard of Oz.

Existential Vacuum: Okay, I’m going to lightning-round end this: Chuck Berry. Duane Allman. Pete Townshend. Gotta be one of those three

Purex99: Oooh, so close, yet so far! All of them on the list, but none of them are in the top 5.

President Art Carney: I hate Rolling Stone, so I’m guessing they went with Les Paul for historical value. Can’t have B.B. King or Robert Johnson in the top 5, so they go with the white guy

Gunpowder God: How is your “Rolling Stone is racist” thesis compatible with your “Rolling Stone always puts Jimi Hendrix at #1” thesis?

President Art Carney: Easy, Hendrix is a token

Purex99: Well, regardless of how racist Rolling Stone is, it’s not Les Paul.

Existential Vacuum: I’m just going to name six dozen guitarists now if you don’t just tell us.

Purex99: It's Keith Richards. [2]

President Art Carney: I think I’d rather them be racist. That’s awful.

Gunpowder God: Ridiculous. :mad:

Existential Vacuum: If you’re just going to pick a guitarist based on “iconic band,” I think I’d prefer George Harrison here, and Soundwave’s grandma has better chops than Harrison.

’69 Mets
: I’m still not over the fact that Rolling Stone doesn’t think Pink Floyd belongs in the top 20 :confused:

Gall Bladder in a Flask: Well, technically, they *do* have a Pink Floyd guitarist in the top 5… ;)

’69 Mets: Blasphemy! Eric Clapton singing bubblegum pop is NOT Pink Floyd!

Soundwave: He’s technically correct, you know.

Purex99: The best kind of correct!

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Radio Waves (Pink Floyd album)

from *Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is about the 1986 album by rock band Pink Floyd. For other uses, see radio waves (disambiguation).

Radio Waves is the thirteenth studio album by the English progressive rock group Pink Floyd, released in the US in August of 1986. It was recorded and released after former Pink Floyd guitarist David Gilmour announced his intention to release material recorded for his third solo album with drummer Nick Mason and keyboardist Richard Wright as a new Pink Floyd album. [3]

Though it received mixed reviews and was derided by Gilmour, Radio Waves outsold Pink Floyd’s previous album The Final Cut and was supported by a successful world tour. It has been certified platinum in the United States [4], and produced one smash hit, “It’s in the Way That You Use It,” which reached No. 1 on the Billboard Mainstream Rock Tracks chart following the release of the Paul Newman-Tom Cruise film The Color of Money in 1986. [5] The album spawned two additional top ten singles: “Radio Waves” and “Sunset Strip,” along with two other singles that charted only in the UK (“The Tide Is Turning” and “Who Needs Information”). [6]

Contents

1. Background
2. Concept
3. Personnel
4. Track Listing
5. Trivia
6. References

Background
Primary Pink Floyd songwriter Roger Waters, who had threatened to resign from the band in 1985, was writing and composing songs for a second solo album, despite mounting pressures from EMI Records to comply with his contractual obligation to produce a “Pink Floyd” album. [7] During a board meeting for the holding company Pink Floyd Music Ltd., David Gilmour learned that a bank account was set up and codenamed “Radio K.A.O.S.”; Gilmour suspected that Waters was illegally using Pink Floyd funds and resources to support his solo effort, and immediately applied to the High Court of Justice seeking an injunction preventing Waters from using the “Pink Floyd” name. [8] In response, Waters hastily reassembled most of the band supporting his first solo album, The Pros and Cons of Hitch Hiking, including his friend Eric Clapton, who had played lead guitar on the album and its supporting tour. [9]

Waters produced the album as "Radio K.A.O.S." and delivered it to EMI Records, which, after the High Court's ruling, accepted the album under the "Pink Floyd" name and in fulfillment of Waters’ contractual duties. It was released as "Radio Waves" on August 13, 1986.

Gilmour and most of Waters’ ex-Pink Floyd bandmates would subsequently release the eponymous Notochord album in 1987. [10]

Concept [11]
Radio Waves is a concept album based on a number of key factors of politics in the late 1980s, including monetarism and its effect on citizens, popular culture of the time, and the events and consequences of the Cold War. It also makes criticisms of Margaret Thatcher's government, much like the previous Pink Floyd album, The Final Cut, which was conceived and almost entirely written by Waters.

The album follows Billy, a mentally and physically disabled 23-year-old Welshman. Though he is confined to a wheelchair and paralyzed from the waist down, disability has made him superhuman, with the ability to literally hear radio waves throughout all frequencies without aid.

Billy was living with his twin brother Benny, who was a coal miner, wife Molly, and their children. Unfortunately, Benny has lost his job in the mines due to the "market forces." One night, Benny and Billy are out on a pub crawl when they pass a shop full of TV screens broadcasting Margaret Thatcher's "mocking condescension." Benny vents his anger on this shop and steals a cordless phone. Next, in theatrical fashion, Benny poses on a footbridge in protest to the closures; the same night, a taxi driver is killed by a concrete block dropped from a similar bridge ("Who Needs Information" – track 2). The police question Benny, who hides the phone in Billy's wheelchair.

Benny is taken to prison, and Molly, unable to cope, sends Billy to live with his uncle David in Los Angeles, California, USA. Since Billy can hear radio waves in his head ("Radio Waves" – track 1), he begins to explore the cordless phone, recognizing its similarity to a radio. He experiments with the phone and is able to access computers and speech synthesizers, and learns to speak through them. He calls a radio station in L.A. and tells them of his life story about his brother being in jail ("A Time For Choosing" – track 3), about his sister-in-law not being able to cope and sending him to L.A. to live with his uncle Dave ("Sunset Strip" – track 5), and about the closures of the mines ("The Powers That Be" – track 4).

Billy eventually hacks into a military satellite and fools the world into thinking nuclear ICBMs are about to be detonated at major cities all over the world while deactivating the military's power to retaliate ("Coming Home" – track 6, and "Four Minutes" – track 7). The album concludes with a song about how everyone, in thinking they were about to die, realizes that the fear and competitiveness peddled by the mass media is much less important than their love for family and the larger community. ("It’s in the Way That You Use It" – track 8).

Waters dedicated the album "to all those who find themselves at the violent end of monetarism." [citation needed]

Personnel [12]
Roger Waters – bass guitar, rhythm guitar, tape effects, lead vocals, backing vocals on track 8
Eric Clapton – lead guitar, backing vocals, Roland guitar synthesizer, lead vocals on track 8
Graham Broad – drums, percussion
David Sanborn – saxophone
Michael Kamen – piano

Track Listing [13]
All songs written and composed by Roger Waters, except for “It’s In The Way That You Use It,” which was written and composed by Eric Clapton.
No., Title, Length
“Radio Waves,” 4:55
“Who Needs Information,” 6:03
“A Time For Choosing,” 4:57
“The Powers That Be,” 4:16
“Sunset Strip,” 4:58
“Coming Home,” 5:53
“Four Minutes,” 4:00
“It’s In The Way That You Use It,” 4:24

Trivia
“A Time For Choosing” samples actual 1980 political campaign advertisements from Ronald Reagan. [14]

References

[1] Vaughn’s 1990 helicopter crash is butterflied away here, so he’s less well-regarded by Rolling Stone. He’s still a virtuoso in any timeline, of course.

[2] No implication here either way that Richards has met an untimely demise in the Dirty Laundryverse.

[3] OTL’s A Momentary Lapse of Reason.

[4] OTL’s equivalent, the Roger Waters solo album Radio K.A.O.S., peaked at #50 on the U.S. Billboard 200 chart and has no certifications; similarly, the Eric Clapton solo album August peaked at #37 and has no certifications.

[5] Mostly as OTL, although “It’s in the Way That You Use It” was, of course, an Eric Clapton solo effort. The Color of Money is largely unchanged, although (sadly) Helen Shaver’s role has been butterflied away.

[6] “Radio Waves” peaked at #12 IOTL and “Sunset Strip” at #15.

[7] As OTL, except that Waters actually resigned from Pink Floyd in December of 1985 IOTL.

[8] IOTL, it was Waters who discovered that Gilmour was planning a new “Pink Floyd” album during a board meeting, and thus Waters who unsuccessfully sued to try and enjoin Gilmour from recording and performing under the name “Pink Floyd.” Here, the tables are turned and it’s Gilmour seeking the injunction who discovers the truth about the partnership.

[9] As OTL.

[10] The equivalent to OTL’s A Momentary Lapse of Reason album, which we (may) get to when the narrative reaches 1987. I have to admit that “Notochord” is entirely the product of my imagination, although (to me, anyway) it certainly sounds like a plausible Pink Floyd spinoff.

[11] With minor butterflies, as OTL.

[12] Mostly as per OTL’s The Pros and Cons of Hitch Hiking, with Graham Broad (a truly great drum player, IMO) from OTL’s Radio K.A.O.S. replacing Andy Newmark and Ray Cooper.

[13] Clapton seemed to be one of the few people who actually enjoyed working and touring with Roger Waters IOTL; here, he stays on board and contributes one song from OTL’s August album. It replaces and serves the same thematic function as “The Tide is Turning (After Live Aid)” from OTL’s Radio K.A.O.S. album; there are lots of reasons why that song doesn’t exist ITTL.

[14] As per OTL’s “Me or Him.” “A Time For Choosing,” of course, also references Reagan’s 1964 speech.

All forum screennames are bad puns based on long-time Dirty Laundry commenters; no effort has been made to match up those contributors with their actual personalities ITTL. :)
 
Eric Clapton and Pink Floyd. That sounds so good in theory. A shame it was botched up like that.

One of the users mentioned that "Sultans of Swing" was the only notable Dire Straits song. Does that mean "Money for Nothing" doesn't exist?
 
The NFL has never attempted to apply the NCAA first-downs-stop-the-clock rule IOTL, which strikes me as a bit of a shame.

As a rugby union fan who already thinks that American football has too many artificial breaks in play and takes too long to finish a game, for the sake of the few times that I have watched NFL games, this doesn't strike me as much of a shame at all.
 
Gall Bladder in a Flask? :D Imaginative, I'll give you that, and thanks for the fun cameo! :) What's doubly funny is that the punchline of the thread actually happened IOTL, when the Toronto Sun saw fit to name the top five rock guitarists of all time, and sure enough, Keith Richards made the list. (Context: the Stones had just headlined the SARS Benefit Concert, and the fluff did everything it could to convince everyone that's not why they'd picked him, though of course it was. I still remember them praising him for, and I'm quoting from memory here, "leaving space between riffs".) The others were Clapton, Stevie Ray Vaughn... don't remember the other two, but probably Hendrix and Page. I know they were all men. Even a Canuck publication wouldn't put freaking Joni Mitchell in the Top 5 :p
 
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