Directive 51: DtF done RIGHT!

PipBoy2999

Banned
Just finished Directive 51 by John Barnes. Truely a masterpiece.

It is what Dies the Fire would look like without the magic and mysticism. The title of the book is derived from President Bush's Continuance of Government directive. Two story plot lines are brought together throught this book, with some wicked cool language conceptualization math tossed in.

Anarchists, Greens, Christianistas, anti-government types, lonely and single techies, and assorted other artists, philosophers, and engineers come together in a shared internet experience and decide "The Big System" has to be taken down. And taken down hard. Bioware and nanoswarms end technological civilization as we know it.

Meanwhile, a Constitutional crisis arises when the President suffers a complete psychological breakdown and the Vice is no where to be found. The Speaker is foreign born, so the Presidency decends to the President Pro Tem of the Senate. Only if the NCCC approves under his duties under Directive 51.

Directive 51 authorizes the NCC, the National Continuity Coordinator, to bypass individuals on the Presidential succession if, in his sole judgement, they fail to fulfill the requirements of the job.

Hillarity ensues when two seperate, but equally justifiable, groups claiming to be the ECG - Enduring Contitutional Government, find themselves on the verge of Civil War in an age where bacteria have eaten away all the plastics and oil, while nanoswarms destroy any electrical device in operation.
 

B_Munro

PipBoy2999 said:
Just finished Directive 51 by John Barnes. Truely a masterpiece.

It is what Dies the Fire would look like without the magic and mysticism. The title of the book is derived from President Bush's Continuance of Government directive. Two story plot lines are brought together throught this book, with some wicked cool language conceptualization math tossed in.

Anarchists, Greens, Christianistas, anti-government types, lonely and single techies, and assorted other artists, philosophers, and engineers come together in a shared internet experience and decide "The Big System" has to be taken down. And taken down hard. Bioware and nanoswarms end technological civilization as we know it.
.
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So instead of magic glowing salad bowl, we get magic nano and bio tech, presumably running off flower power. :rolleyes: John Barnes is not exactly a hard-SF writer. I wouldn't mind it so much - he's written stuff I've liked - but this "Anarchists, Greens, artists, philosophers" (and I like that "Christianistas" in there. It's like the opening scene from the "Naked Gun!" movie) sounds like annoyed resentment towards people who are rude enough to point out the current system is broken (you see, it was really those damn dirty hippies that brought about the end of civilization, not us upright Canyonero drivers!) Unless others bring reports that it's a fantastic good read, I'll give it a miss.

Bruce
 

PipBoy2999

Banned
I dunno. Seeing the US Army trying to retool to wooden stocked rifles using blackpowder only was amusing. The US Navy standing off in the middle of the ocean, impotent due to fear of getting too close to contagion and fishing for resupply was cool.

What I liked was that alot of the storyline was the politics and the efforts of the government(s) to cope with the situation. At least in D51, Europe doesn't end up eating itself and there's no cannabalism to be found. Lots of references to apple orchards tho...
 

PipBoy2999

Banned
Mass starvation in the north-east. Mostly handled 'off-camera' as an actual event. Focus was on the government crisis management team trying to triage the event/ save as much as they could. Much of the north-east becomes known as 'the empty quarter', however because it's a slow moving collapse, many folks are able to flee the urban areas before total collapse. Not all, but some make it to farm land.

Constitutionally, I think he's very accurate. The Directive 51 is a real and current (haven't heard if President O has changed it) Presidential Directive for the continuity of government.
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
PipBoy2999 said:
Mass starvation in the north-east. Mostly handled 'off-camera' as an actual event. Focus was on the government crisis management team trying to triage the event/ save as much as they could. Much of the north-east becomes known as 'the empty quarter', however because it's a slow moving collapse, many folks are able to flee the urban areas before total collapse. Not all, but some make it to farm land.

Constitutionally, I think he's very accurate. The Directive 51 is a real and current (haven't heard if President O has changed it) Presidential Directive for the continuity of government.
Click to expand...

Presidential Directives or Executive Orders do NOT trump the Constitution. The order of succession is enshirined in the Constitution via part of the 20th and 25th Amendments. The President can do a lot with a stroke of a pen, he can't change basic law, despite what GW liked to believe.
 
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PipBoy2999

Banned
I didn't say the order of succession was in question. The controversy that arises in both the book and on the part of many after publication of the directive is that the NCC has discretion in determining if the next person in line of succession is fit for office. In the event of a catastrophic event, many may have trouble coping with the tragedy and be ineffective in thier ability to function. Whether or not the NCC power to pass over individuals in the Chain of Succession is a major part of the conflict in the storyline. NCC says he does, others say he doesn't, and the remnants of Congress and Supreme Court weigh in.

Who do you obey, if you're a soldier, and two different people claim to have presidential authority, and you can't get clarification from the courts because the phones are down?
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
PipBoy2999 said:
I didn't say the order of succession was in question. The controversy that arises in both the book and on the part of many after publication of the directive is that the NCC has discretion in determining if the next person in line of succession is fit for office. In the event of a catastrophic event, many may have trouble coping with the tragedy and be ineffective in thier ability to function. Whether or not the NCC power to pass over individuals in the Chain of Succession is a major part of the conflict in the storyline. NCC says he does, others say he doesn't, and the remnants of Congress and Supreme Court weigh in.

Who do you obey, if you're a soldier, and two different people claim to have presidential authority, and you can't get clarification from the courts because the phones are down?
Click to expand...

I ask my CO. Being a college graduate who has a 10th grade understanding of the Constitution he orders me to shoot the NCC imposter as he is clearly an "enemy foreign or domestic" to the United States of America. Problem solved.
 
Fleetlord

Fleetlord

B_Munro said:
So instead of magic glowing salad bowl, we get magic nano and bio tech, presumably running off flower power. :rolleyes: John Barnes is not exactly a hard-SF writer. I wouldn't mind it so much - he's written stuff I've liked - but this "Anarchists, Greens, artists, philosophers" (and I like that "Christianistas" in there. It's like the opening scene from the "Naked Gun!" movie) sounds like annoyed resentment towards people who are rude enough to point out the current system is broken (you see, it was really those damn dirty hippies that brought about the end of civilization, not us upright Canyonero drivers!) Unless others bring reports that it's a fantastic good read, I'll give it a miss.

Bruce
Click to expand...

Even better, it's a conveniently leaderless organization, comprised of literally everybody with a beef against "Big System", which manages to pull off a technologically sophisticated and global attack with absolutely no leaks until the day of. :rolleyes:

Also (mild spoilers) the "Constitutional Crisis" is brought about because the Vice-President is killed by terrorists and the President is so damned distraught that he wimps out of the Presidency. (Oh, and he's explicitly a Democrat. So Yeah.)

Got the book, but between that, Turtledovian loads-and-loads of disconnected characters, and a writing style that's, I dunno, just disengaging somehow, I haven't finished it yet -- I keep putting it off for more interesting writing.
 

galveston bay

CalBear said:
Presidential Directives or Executive Orders do NOT trump the Constitution. The order of succession is enshirined in the Constitution via part of the 20th and 25th Amendments. The President can do a lot with a stroke of a pen, he can't change basic law, despite what GW liked to believe.
Click to expand...

not that I disagree with you but I will point out the by executive order.. President Lincoln suspended Habeus Corpus, and Andrew Jackson ignored an order from the Supreme Court.

"The Constitution is not a suicide pact" Justice Robert H Jackson, 1949
 

Mappa Mundorum

Fleetlord Hart said:
Even better, it's a conveniently leaderless organization, comprised of literally everybody with a beef against "Big System", which manages to pull off a technologically sophisticated and global attack with absolutely no leaks until the day of. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

If you've read much other Barnes, you'd recognize Daybreak as an only slightly toned-down version of One True. It's not an organization, it's a neurolinguistic virus, and the absence of leaks makes perfect sense in that context.
 

PipBoy2999

Banned
Mappa Mundorum said:
If you've read much other Barnes, you'd recognize Daybreak as an only slightly toned-down version of One True. It's not an organization, it's a neurolinguistic virus, and the absence of leaks makes perfect sense in that context.
Click to expand...

Wow. I didn't make the connection. I didn't realize Barnes had written Kalidascope Century and The Sky So Big and Black. You're right, it does look like the same story now.
 

TR1

galveston bay said:
not that I disagree with you but I will point out the by executive order.. President Lincoln suspended Habeus Corpus, and Andrew Jackson ignored an order from the Supreme Court.
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Constitution says habeas can be suspended: "The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it." Article One, Section 9, Clause 2.

The aftermath of Worcester v. Georgia is far more complicated than first blush suggests. In any event, no order ever came from Jackson that defied the court, and really, Georgia was the party ruled against.
 

Johnestauffer

In some respects this was better the DTF. At least the rationale for why things stopped working was a little more believable.
It seemed there were 2 themes in the story, 1 about Daybreak and the ramifications and 1 about the sucession to the Presidency.
It wasn't the greatest book, but it was entertaining. (some things still stretched credibility)

I wondered why the Daybreakers somewhere didn't give more consideration to the vast number of lives that would be lost. With the breakdown of the medical system, and the absence of vital medications, there would be many, many fatalities. (only 1 character in the book was affected)
 

The Lurker

I didn't like it much. It reminded me of Mother of Storms (decent book) in that it tried to show a broad spectrum of stuff all happening at once, but it neither made a case for plausibility nor just flatly asked for a suspension of disbelief like DtF did.
 
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