Diplomatic end to World War II

Suppose the Axis powers sue for peacd after they see their situation is ultimately hopeless, though not at the point where it'says obvious. Perhaps in the summer of 1944, after German defeats at Stalingrad, Kursk, North Africa, and Italy, with a successfull beachhead in France, and Japanese defeats at Guadalcanal, Midway, Saipan, and Kohima, as well as the persistent failure to knock China out of the war. Basically at the point where the Allies aren't exactlyin a position to dictate terms, but the writing is on the wall.

How likely is it that they sue for peace, and how likely is it that the Allies agree to talk? And what would the terms be?
 
The Allies had decided on unconditional surrender, and a few months ago there was a thread about Japan lasting longer where most people thought such was impossible after Coral Sea, or even Pearl, for the PTO.

How likely is it that they sue for peace, and how likely is it that the Allies agree to talk? And what would the terms be?
In 1944:

Unlikely, Impossible, Unconditional Surrender.

In 1941 however, Stalin was wanting Hitler to offer a peace, hoping to hold on to the USSR when the war ended. Naturally this would be very pro-Axis, and I don't think you are intending that for this scenario.
 

Wendigo

Banned
If you wanted Germany to surrender in 1944 you'd have to get rid of Hitler, Himmler, Goebbels and the rest of fanatics.

Hitler didn't surrender when his army was broken in half and surrendering by the millions, almost every German city was bombed to ruins, and the Red Army was firing 203mm howitzers over open sights in the streets of Berlin less than a mile away from his bunker. This is a leader who shortly before killing himself handed out medals to preteens who were fighting and dying for him and his Reich when the war was essentially over. When he said "No November 1918" he meant it.

What makes you think he would sue for peace when he still has thousands of tanks, planes, and millions of troops in the field plus a significant percentage of the populace firmly behind him? There weren't even any foreign troops on German soil yet. Unless Hitler becomes a completely different person, he won't agree to a surrender.
 
I am not talking about a surrender exactly, just ending the war on terms favorable to the Axis powers. A sort of surrender lite, if you will.

The Allies had decided on unconditional surrender, and a few months ago there was a thread about Japan lasting longer where most people thought such was impossible after Coral Sea, or even Pearl, for the PTO.

Not as strong as you might have thought, there were signs of preparation to conpromise.
 
Even without unconditional surrender, the only thing the Allies would have gone for would have been removal of the governments, Nazi and Japanese militarists, disarmament, reparations. Once the Holocaust and the Japanese war crimes came to light, giving up the criminals would be part of the deal. FWIW when the Japanese made the vague overtures they did in the late summer of 1945, one of their conditions was they would try anyone of theirs accused of crimes. IMHO for either the Germans or Japanese to end the war on any terms the Allies would accept they would have to be really beaten down first, at which point why accept anything less than unconditional surrender.

Had the Valkyrie plotters taken over in 1941 or 1942 maybe, just maybe they could have ended the war with a return to status quo ante bellum in terms of borders (yes Anschluß, no Sudentenland) significant disarmament and reparations, as well as turning over the big Nazis to the Allies. By 1944 it was way too late - they were deceiving themselves that by removing the top Nazis they could mollify the Allies.

As several threads have discussed, if Stalin is killed or for some other reason the USSR throws in the sponge and the Nazis accept a Brest-Litovsk, you may end up with an end to the war like Calbear described. Until the Germans are losing so badly they can't see any way to win (except in Hitler's deranged mind), why would they quit when "winning". When they are on the ropes, they aren't aloud to quit. As far as Japan goes, the only way it ends before it did is if Hirohito decides to end it, and can do so without being taken in to "protective custody".
 
I am not talking about a surrender exactly, just ending the war on terms favorable to the Axis powers. A sort of surrender lite, if you will.

Well, given how Versailles went (which, despite the harsh terms, was still a surrender lite), nothing short of unconditional surrender would suffice for the Allies. No one wants to fight a Third World War with Germany, not after the second came just a generation after the first.
 
Top