Different WWI Alliances

In the late nineteenth century, Germany, Austria-Hungary, and Russia were allied together under the League of Three Emperors. The League eventually fell apart, with Russia going its own way.

WI the League survived until 1914? The treaties called for neutrality in case of war with another power, but I don't think it'd be ASB for the League to become an ATL Central Powers.

So we have Russia, Germany, and Austria-Hungary on one side in this WWI and England, France, and Italy (maybe?) on the other.

What would happen?
 
In the late nineteenth century, Germany, Austria-Hungary, and Russia were allied together under the League of Three Emperors. The League eventually fell apart, with Russia going its own way.

WI the League survived until 1914? The treaties called for neutrality in case of war with another power, but I don't think it'd be ASB for the League to become an ATL Central Powers.

So we have Russia, Germany, and Austria-Hungary on one side in this WWI and England, France, and Italy (maybe?) on the other.

What would happen?

The total absence of an Eastern Front, I think, would probably spell doom for France in the opening campaign of the war, where things were already dangerously close ...
 

MrP

Banned
The total absence of an Eastern Front, I think, would probably spell doom for France in the opening campaign of the war, where things were already dangerously close ...

I dunno. The Russo-French war plans called for an immediate offensive by both powers in order to overwhelm the Germans. If the French cannot count on the Russians, they might well adopt a far more cautious posture - after all, the BEF doesn't contribute much to their fighting power.
 
Germany and Russia vs France and Austria-Hungary could in theory lead to a war and might be vaguely plausable given a very different 19th century. Although without British help to France and A-H it would still be too one-sided.

Or perhaps France+AH vs Germany and Italy, with Britain and Russia engaged in near open war in the Far East. The Germany/Italy alliance would have the edge, but it wouldn't be quite as clear cut.

These *everyone piles on France, or Russia, or someone else* wars are unrealistic. For one the various powers inevitably have major disputes with each other and secondly the French or whoever would just give in rather than be crushed over a handful of colonial territories. You have to have a situation where both sides believe they can win.

Anyway in your timeline, France gets crushed by a vast number of foreign armies. Germany could have a good crack at it alone, never mind additional Russian or Austrian manpower that could be brought up.
 
Germany and Russia vs France and Austria-Hungary could in theory lead to a war and might be vaguely plausable given a very different 19th century. Although without British help to France and A-H it would still be too one-sided.

Or perhaps France+AH vs Germany and Italy, with Britain and Russia engaged in near open war in the Far East. The Germany/Italy alliance would have the edge, but it wouldn't be quite as clear cut.

These *everyone piles on France, or Russia, or someone else* wars are unrealistic. For one the various powers inevitably have major disputes with each other and secondly the French or whoever would just give in rather than be crushed over a handful of colonial territories. You have to have a situation where both sides believe they can win.

Anyway in your timeline, France gets crushed by a vast number of foreign armies. Germany could have a good crack at it alone, never mind additional Russian or Austrian manpower that could be brought up.

Germany vs. France alone is a German victory unless the French have an amazing plan that succeeds very quickly- there are 50% more Germans than French, and an even greater disparity in industiral production, not to mention the younger and more rapidly growing nature of the German population.

I'm vaguely reminded of an AH I RPed some years ago, in which AH didn't exist, and Germany and Italy were allies, fighting against Britain, France and Japan (and soon after the United States). The German alliance won, but irretreviably lost most of their Pacific territories (more extensive in this TL) to the Americans and the Japanese.
 

General Zod

Banned
I'm vaguely reminded of an AH I RPed some years ago, in which AH didn't exist, and Germany and Italy were allies, fighting against Britain, France and Japan (and soon after the United States). The German alliance won, but irretreviably lost most of their Pacific territories (more extensive in this TL) to the Americans and the Japanese.

What about the Russians ?
 
Germany and Russia vs France and Austria-Hungary could in theory lead to a war and might be vaguely plausable given a very different 19th century. Although without British help to France and A-H it would still be too one-sided.

Or perhaps France+AH vs Germany and Italy, with Britain and Russia engaged in near open war in the Far East. The Germany/Italy alliance would have the edge, but it wouldn't be quite as clear cut.

These *everyone piles on France, or Russia, or someone else* wars are unrealistic. For one the various powers inevitably have major disputes with each other and secondly the French or whoever would just give in rather than be crushed over a handful of colonial territories. You have to have a situation where both sides believe they can win.

Anyway in your timeline, France gets crushed by a vast number of foreign armies. Germany could have a good crack at it alone, never mind additional Russian or Austrian manpower that could be brought up.

That's not the POD. Russia, A-H, and Germany remain allied up until WWI in this TL, leaving France and England alone in the West.
 
Well, the war wouldn't start for the same reason that it did in OTL if Russia was allied with Germany and A-H.

France would certainly stay on the defensive, which would give some benefit, but I think France would still be overwhelmed unless the British could send a lot more troops faster than they did in OTL.

One way to have a more even matchup:

Germany, A-H, and Russia vs. France, Britain, USA (non-isolationist and with a large army), Italy, the Ottoman Empire, and Japan. I have no idea how you could get that to happen, though. :confused:
 
Well, the war wouldn't start for the same reason that it did in OTL if Russia was allied with Germany and A-H.

France would certainly stay on the defensive, which would give some benefit, but I think France would still be overwhelmed unless the British could send a lot more troops faster than they did in OTL.

One way to have a more even matchup:

Germany, A-H, and Russia vs. France, Britain, USA (non-isolationist and with a large army), Italy, the Ottoman Empire, and Japan. I have no idea how you could get that to happen, though. :confused:

The OE on the same side as the British and the French is indeed a very intriguing idea, but like you I don't have a clue how to get that to happen. IIRC one of the reasons the Ottomans joined the CP was to battle against the British infringing on their territory. Perhaps Britain promises to prop up the Ottomans in return for their support? This would certainly turn the Balkans into an important front...
 
Without Russian Alliance, the french will do everything possible to avoid the war, as they did before they had alliance, in the late XIX century.

The only exception is if there is a firm alliance with USA, but that seems ASB.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
If the league of three emperors didn't dissolved the war would probably not start over Balkans (there would probably be some understandings between A-H and Russia regarding the Balkans).
 
An alliance between A-H, Germany, and Russia against Britain, France, and Italy is very likely, a CP victory, especially if Germany doesn't go through Belgium. That way, the Anglos stay out, France gets pwned, A-H gets screwed, and America stays isolationist.
 
An alliance between A-H, Germany, and Russia against Britain, France, and Italy is very likely, a CP victory, especially if Germany doesn't go through Belgium. That way, the Anglos stay out, France gets pwned, A-H gets screwed, and America stays isolationist.

Only Pb is, if thqt war happens at all, the Entente will definitely be on the defensive on the western front from day 1. It's unlykely that the front will move much from the borders and the imperial armies are going to be bled dry for every meter they take.

A bloodbath even worse than OTL, at least for the empires.
 
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In the late nineteenth century, Germany, Austria-Hungary, and Russia were allied together under the League of Three Emperors. The League eventually fell apart, with Russia going its own way.

WI the League survived until 1914? The treaties called for neutrality in case of war with another power, but I don't think it'd be ASB for the League to become an ATL Central Powers.

So we have Russia, Germany, and Austria-Hungary on one side in this WWI and England, France, and Italy (maybe?) on the other.

What would happen?

What would there be to fight over in this case? If the alliances were that different, there would be no WWI.
 
I don't agree with this. France has the defensive advantage - I don't think it's at all clear that France has to lose against Germany one-on-one. It would seem likely given the OTL situation, but in this one, without Russia as an ally, France would have reacted in some way to shore up its prospects, i.e. a full defensive alliance with Britain, or moving towards an agreement with Germany. You could see Belgium abandon neutrality, serious fortification of the frontiers, etc. "To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."

Germany vs. France alone is a German victory unless the French have an amazing plan that succeeds very quickly- there are 50% more Germans than French, and an even greater disparity in industiral production, not to mention the younger and more rapidly growing nature of the German population.

I'm vaguely reminded of an AH I RPed some years ago, in which AH didn't exist, and Germany and Italy were allies, fighting against Britain, France and Japan (and soon after the United States). The German alliance won, but irretreviably lost most of their Pacific territories (more extensive in this TL) to the Americans and the Japanese.
 
An alliance between A-H, Germany, and Russia against Britain, France, and Italy is very likely, a CP victory, especially if Germany doesn't go through Belgium. That way, the Anglos stay out, France gets pwned, A-H gets screwed, and America stays isolationist.

Without going through Belgium, the Germans have no prayer of defeating France. There is only a short frontier, which is reasonably defensible, which totally nullifies Germany's numerical advantage.
 
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