Different WW2

Would be interested to know people's views on the following brief scenario

Churchill does not send troops to Greece, and the advance on tripoli is continued, with libya falling before Rommel and any Afrika Korps elements can embark.
Crete is however occupied by the British, thanks to not wasting troops in Greece Crete is held by the British with the German Airborne forces being decimated.
Malta never becomes the focus of a bombing campaign as Hitler is fixated with British Air bases in Crete being a threat to the Ploesti oilfields, crete is subjected to the air assault Malta endured in OTL.
Maybe what would have become the Afrika Korps is earmarked for Crete instead, or maybe the Italian Navy falls short of being able to escort an assault force against Tripoli, maybe the Germans suffer a Dieppe type debacle in trying to land at Tripoli.
Hitler occupies Spain and Portugal ? ( a longshot ), then we can get Torch landing in Portugal rather than NW Africa.
 
Would be interested to know people's views on the following brief scenario

Churchill does not send troops to Greece, and the advance on tripoli is continued, with libya falling before Rommel and any Afrika Korps elements can embark.
Crete is however occupied by the British, thanks to not wasting troops in Greece Crete is held by the British with the German Airborne forces being decimated.
Malta never becomes the focus of a bombing campaign as Hitler is fixated with British Air bases in Crete being a threat to the Ploesti oilfields, crete is subjected to the air assault Malta endured in OTL.
Maybe what would have become the Afrika Korps is earmarked for Crete instead, or maybe the Italian Navy falls short of being able to escort an assault force against Tripoli, maybe the Germans suffer a Dieppe type debacle in trying to land at Tripoli.

Possible.

Victoria944 said:
Hitler occupies Spain and Portugal ? ( a longshot ), then we can get Torch landing in Portugal rather than NW Africa.

I don't see any reason why Hitler would conquer Spain and Portugal. Franco was fascist and pro-Hitler altough he stayed neutral. And Salazar was some kind of fascist if I have understand correct. So probably Hitler not goes to Iberia. And attacking to fascist countries might annoy Mussolini and other fascist allies. Hitler wasn't so stupid.
 
I agree absolutely, i was interested in getting to a scenario where the US and GB invade portugal and make their way through Spain. Maybe Franco could be overthrown or he loses the civil war ?.
 
Make them too timid or too hurried (or both) to try a landing in France. Instead of looking at Italy as "the soft underbelly of Europe" (yea, that didn't necessarily work out that way...) the Allies decide to return to the continent via the Iberian peninsula.

Theoretical advantages of opening up a tremendous number of potential air bases and port facilities while denying them to the Nazis, building up for an invasion of France without having to add in the resources and hazards of a cross channel invasion (or allowing embarkation of invasion forces into either the Channel or the Med), relieving some of the attacks/threats to Great Britain.

Theroetical disadvantages of having to get through/around the Pyrenees, limitataions imposed by port and transportation infrastructure...Oh, and a lot of pissed off Spaniards and/or Portuguese.
 
I think since Crete would be a much bigger target, bombing it like they did Malta would require a quite large increase of planes. Since Crete has more airfields and ports the RAF can better spread out their efforts to resupply and defend it during a siege. This would i tink mean a lot of casualties for the Italian Airforce. However, since it is so much larger it would be much harder to defend and supply then Malta and many more convoys into hostile water are neccesary, exposing them to enemy submarines and other convoy raiders.

An Italian amphibious assault on Cretre is not out of the question, especially early in the war with help from German troops and planes. Doesn't matter if they lost Libya, in the beginning the Commonwealth didn't have the men or ships in the meds to continue on towards Sicily or Greece. The Italian fleet-in-being would make sure the Allies would first try to put them out of action before landing in more Italian territory.

If they succeed on taking over Crete the Italians might even be so bold as to do an amphibious landing in Palestine or even Egypt, if they manage to not get their fleet destroyed in the process.

I do agree Hitler won't attack Spain or Portugal. But it could be more pressure is put on Franco to join the alliance or at least allow German troops in to take Gibraltar.
 
So if Churchill sends only a token infantry force to Greece, and then only to Crete, how much further can the Allies advance in 1940? Can they make Tripoli?
 
Well the Italian 10th army surrenders 9th April 1941.
The British are at El Agheila, 641 km/400 miles from Tripoli, Rommel arrives on the 14th Febuary 1941, advanced elements of 5th german Light Division are landing, 5th Light isn't fully in place until 12th march, however the Italians have been pouring forces in, 6 divisions in total incl Arite and trieste Arm'd divs. British have 4 divisions i think, so things need altering to have the British take tripoli before the Afika Korps intervenes.

As an addendum

"Numerous individuals, including O'Connor, British Admiral Cunningham
(Commander-in-Chief of the British Fleet in the Eastern Mediterranean),
Brigadier Dorman-Smith (Wavell's personal liaison officer with O'Connor),
the American Consul in Tunis, and General Rommel believed that the Italian
morale was so low and British logistics good enough that Tripoli could have
been captured with a small force"

"Wavell in the Middle East, 1939-1941: A Study in Generalship",
1993, Harold Raugh.
 
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So by April 1941 Libya is cleared of the Italians, will Hitler just abandon North Africa or does Rommel get sent to tunisia, that has consequences the Germans may not wish to bring about with Vichy. So someone has to take crete if Hitler's ploesti oil worries dominate - rommel to crete ?.
 
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