Different Versailles

  • Thread starter Deleted member 1487
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Deleted member 1487

What if during the first world war the french suffer a moral collapse that results in them staying in the war, but losing influence at the peace conference. So while they get AL back, they don't get to impose their version of peace. As a result what happens?

Sudenten Germans in Germany? Eastern borders more realistic? Other options I am unaware of?
 
the French really DIDN'T get to impose their version of peace, which in its most extreme form wanted to carve Germany up into small states so it couldn't threaten them again, but the other powers wanted more moderation, I think.
 
The French really failed to get what they wanted. A border on the Rhine would probably have averted WW2 or at the very least changed things radically.

You could get some super-germany, but none of the victors exactly want that. A Germany including the Sudeten land, Austria and so on would be more powerful than before the war, not less. Britain and France didn't win the war just to hand European hegemony to Berlin.

Its very optimistic that Versailles should have been more realistic regarding Eastern Europe, but Eastern Europe largely sorted themselves out in 1918 and the collapse of the Empires. Versailles basically recognised what was already in existance.

All in all the peace treaty is probably similar to OTL. Reperations might be reduced, but they were more a political issue rather than an economic issue.
 
The Eastern borders were much more shaped locally than by the intervention of any of the winners, and the winners who actually had more boots on the ground there, were exactly the French.
So if the French get to play the fifth wheel at the conference table, I'd say for sure they won't be investing more blood out there. Which means the Poles get more of what they want, not less. Expect much more guerrilla, and "surprising" plebiscite results, without French troops there.
The Czechs probably don't get anything more, but certainly they don't get less than in OTL.

The French not getting their say at the peace conference, OTOH, has much more momentous consequences in terms of reparations and, especially, in the issue of the demilitarization of the Rheinland. It is possible the Germans get away with less reparations to pay, and it is almost certain there won't be a demilitarized zone. This may jump-start Hitler's mischief up to one year on advance on OTL schedule.

It is possible, but unlikely, that the Germans also are under fewer disarmament restrictions; in any case, that's not very important, since they cheated on them from day one.
 
The French not getting their say at the peace conference, OTOH, has much more momentous consequences in terms of reparations and, especially, in the issue of the demilitarization of the Rheinland. It is possible the Germans get away with less reparations to pay, and it is almost certain there won't be a demilitarized zone. This may jump-start Hitler's mischief up to one year on advance on OTL schedule.

It is possible, but unlikely, that the Germans also are under fewer disarmament restrictions; in any case, that's not very important, since they cheated on them from day one.
And it might also, in fact, is quite likely, to affect Hitler's rise to power. Make it more unlikely, for one thing. If Hitler isn't in power, then Hitler won't be doing any mischief.
 
And it might also, in fact, is quite likely, to affect Hitler's rise to power. Make it more unlikely, for one thing. If Hitler isn't in power, then Hitler won't be doing any mischief.

I don't know if it makes it that much more unlikely. The Germans are going to be not angry because there's no Rheinland demilitarized zone. OTOH they are going to be much, much angrier due to the ATL Eastern borders. Most of the other factors don't change significantly.
 

Deleted member 1487

The situation with Danzig was not something set up by the Polish, rather the Allies. If the French are not not there, the Poles don't stand a chance against the returning German troops. So I see the situation in Eastern Europe getting settled in the German's favor unless the Brits or Americans want to send troops in. With the situation in Russia and the commitment of troops there and the unwillingness of OTL to commit troops to the region, I think that the Freikorps could settle things on their own. I also see the possibility of less restriction on the German army too. This could get interesting for the Wiemar Republic and it may even stand and earlier chance.

Would any other parts of the border be effected? I think the demilitarized zone would be non-negotiable.
 
The situation with Danzig was not something set up by the Polish, rather the Allies. If the French are not not there, the Poles don't stand a chance against the returning German troops. So I see the situation in Eastern Europe getting settled in the German's favor unless the Brits or Americans want to send troops in. With the situation in Russia and the commitment of troops there and the unwillingness of OTL to commit troops to the region, I think that the Freikorps could settle things on their own.

Well, I don't. The Eastern borders of Germany don't stop at Danzig. For instance I don't see an easy victory of Germans in the third Silesian uprising.

Of course if the Germans were allowed to move troops at will, they would eventually win. But that's not the case. The Allies still had too many levers from far away. A coordinated intervention by the central German government is made difficult by the overall Allied control, while at the same time the lack of Allied troops on the ground isn't going to favor the Germans.

I also see the possibility of less restriction on the German army too. This could get interesting for the Wiemar Republic and it may even stand and earlier chance.

An earlier chance of what? In any case, since the restrictions were immediately circumvented in OTL, as I said this ATL divergence isn't going to be very important.
 
No matter how different Versailles is the real spanner in the works is the great depression, which give herr Hitler the keys to the Reichstag.
 
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